Jeff Booth: Why President Bukele Understands Bitcoin Better Than Most Bitcoiners I Know

In this episode, I sit down with Jeff Booth inside the National Palace El Salvador to dig into a question a lot of people are asking in private. Is El Salvador still Bitcoin country, or did Bukele get captured by the IMF. Jeff shares how he ended up invited by the President, why he first thought he was being used as a marketing prop, and what actually happened during a long conversation on Bitcoin, freedom money, and what it means for a small country trying to escape a global control system.

We walk through the IMF and El Salvador story from Jeff’s perspective. He explains why a former failed state turned to Bitcoin to escape fiat money and its hidden taxes, yet still decided to take an IMF loan. Jeff shares Bukele’s “rat and cheese” analogy, and why the real goal is Salvadorans holding their own keys, running nodes, and building a circular economy in Bitcoin instead of staying stuck in the old system. He also talks about what he saw on the ground, from gang crackdowns and falling crime, to how the historic center now feels safer and more vibrant, and what that means for tourism in El Salvador.

From there, we zoom out into the deeper human side. Jeff explains how understanding Bitcoin forces an existential crisis, especially for wealthy people and NGOs who thought they were helping, while actually reinforcing a broken fiat money system. We get into game theory, why most people will cheat if they think they will not get caught, and why the principled minority who run nodes and hold their own keys matter so much. Jeff lays out a simple way to think about moving your time into the Bitcoin economy, starting with a small percentage, then growing it until your life reflects an honest market instead of a control system built on inflation and debt.

We close with why Jeff walked away from a huge Twitter audience to spend his time on Nostr, how he thinks about living in alignment in public, and what he is building with Ego Death Capital. He shares how they use Bitcoin as the hurdle rate, why he believes Bitcoin native startups will massively outperform as the old world gets repriced, and how founders in places like El Salvador can collect more Bitcoin by creating real value for real people. 

If this conversation shifts how you see El Salvador, the IMF, or fiat money, subscribe, drop a comment with your biggest takeaway, and send this to a friend who still refuses to spend sats in Bitcoin Beach.

-Bitcoin Beach Team

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Web: https://www.jeffbooth.ca/ 

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Browse through this quick guide to learn more about the episode:

00:00 - Why does Jeff Booth say Bukele understands the global Bitcoin game and the IMF “rat and cheese” trap?

01:52 - What first brought Jeff Booth to El Salvador and why were Bitcoiners questioning if it is still Bitcoin country?

02:55 - How did the invitation from Bukele’s office change Jeff’s thinking about El Salvador’s Bitcoin strategy?

04:02 - Why did Jeff want to look Bukele in the eye before trusting the El Salvador Bitcoin experiment?

10:08 - Does Bukele feel the Bitcoin experiment is working and how does he balance IMF money with a Bitcoin vision?

13:57 - How different does San Salvador feel today compared to the gang violence years before Bitcoin and Bukele’s crackdown?

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Live From Bitcoin Beach

Transcript

Jeff Booth: 0:00

He said, I know that, that through this money, that they see me as a little, a little country, and I need the money and and I'm, in other words, I'm a rat, and I'm going to take the cheese, and once I take the cheese, then then they got half me right, and I need more and more money, and I'm trapped, trapped in this. And then he said, he said, But if my citizens go into self custody, spend in Bitcoin and run nodes, then I can get the cheese and I can get out right? And I went, wow. He actually understands the global game at play. He understands how big this game is. And then there's a bunch of Bitcoiners yelling at VA Kelly, well, they still spend most of their money and measure Bitcoin in fiat currency.

Mike Peterson: 0:52

They're the ones when they come to visit, will refuse to spend Bitcoin. They want to spend Fiat.

Jeff Booth: 0:58

It's wild. He understands that people need to run nodes. People need to spend in Bitcoin, not a stable coin. People need to people that need to run circular economies. People need to build on top of that. When, when he said that, it told me everything I needed to know. Told me that that, if he actually does, if he protects that, then, then companies are going to race here right to also keep that protection you

Unknown: 1:40

you,

Mike Peterson: 1:52

Jeff, we finally got you on the podcast here in El Salvador in the National Palace. I mean, how awesome?

Jeff Booth: 1:58

Is this amazing? Yeah, absolutely amazing.

Mike Peterson: 2:02

I mean, I love my studio in El zonte, but, you know, it's hard to compare with being in the palace here.

Jeff Booth: 2:07

I don't know. I saw your studio. Saw your place in those pretty stunning. I'll do the next one there.

Mike Peterson: 2:16

Yes, yes, next, next time. So I'm not gonna beat around the bush. I'll just come out swinging in the beginning. What What brought you down to El Salvador? And what is your view? There's a lot of Bitcoiners now that are like questioning El Salvador's devotion to Bitcoin. And then was this size? Is bukele backpedaling on this? Is, is it still Bitcoin country? And I know you came down and met with the President, I think, like six months ago, about six months ago. And so I'm just curious to hear what you heard, and what your take is, and what you would say to people who who think that you know, El Salvador has kind of lost that momentum,

Jeff Booth: 2:55

yeah, so, so now you respect everybody's opinion, whatever their opinion they have, but here's the way I need to go through things, right? And so, so I saw the same thing. I saw the IMF come in here, and I wondered for myself, and then I got a call from the President's offer as asking if I wanted to come down.

Mike Peterson: 3:16

Was that just out of the blue?

Jeff Booth: 3:18

Out of the blue asking if I wanted to come down and meet the president and, and the truth of it is, what I thought at that time is, is because people know who I am in this space and, and you always have to do your own, don't trust, verify, but, but I believe I'm unviable right in And nothing is going to take me off moving Bitcoin to freedom tech, to a world that looks totally different. And so I think a lot of people see me as that. So what I thought I was getting, what was happening to me is I was being used as a marketing Yeah.

Unknown: 3:58

Take

Jeff Booth: 4:02

some pictures. Okay. So I came in with that, but I also came in with and then the funny thing, the crazy thing, is, the other part of the world, of my life, is Bitcoin. Else. He's a dictator. He locked people up. He's so when I see these diverging opinions and everything else, what I what I typically do is I want to see for myself. Yeah, so I flew down here because I wanted to look into him in the eyes, and I wanted to see for myself. Now, granted, you could never know for sure. Yeah, right. Anybody could cheat you, right, but anybody could say something and then do so do something different this. So Bitcoin we all know this is proof of work, proof of work, proof of work. So, so I understand Bitcoiners, when he took the IMF money, why that didn't look like proof of work. So I wanted to come and see for myself. So the meeting was supposed to be half an hour. It ended up being. Being two and a half hours, and we went through, he's read my book. He understands the process. He was a bitcoiner far before he was President, right? And he understood, he understands this. He understands this probably deeper than just about every Bitcoin I know, not but deep. People that understand Bitcoin understand what? But there's a lot of people are who are still measuring Bitcoin in a Fiat world. So, so he said to me, he said, the challenges of a nation when, when Bitcoin isn't big enough to solve the challenges yet, right? That that people need still need to eat. People still need roads infrastructure. All schools. Name the thing because you had a you had a failed state. Yeah, that had to, had to change Bitcoin at that time. It wasn't big enough, and it was, and by going to Bitcoin, he sent a message to the world that I'm not going to be in a control system anymore, and so I understand why. When he went to IMF, it would look like he was captured, but he said to me, and talked about all the challenges and what that looks like, and he still has to remain elected to be able to do the job and to remain elected, you have to make sure your citizens are thriving, and they have to have infrastructure and so, so there wasn't enough money in Bitcoin to just do it in Bitcoin, so he took the IMF loan, and he said to me, I don't think I'm so I'll say exactly what he said to me. He said, I know that, that through this money, that they see me as a little, a little country, and I need the money and and I'm, in other words, I'm a rat, and I'm going to take the cheese, and once I take the cheese, then, then they got half me right, and I need more and I need more and more money, and I'm trapped in this and and I say something after this, and then, but, and then he said, he said, But, if my citizens go into self custody, spend in Bitcoin and run nodes, then They can get the cheese and I can get out right? And I went, wow. He actually understands the global game at play. He understands how big this game is. And I sat down for so, so, so that's why, when he asked for my help in setting up this conference, if I could come here now, maybe he isn't that, right, but if he allows me to come on stage and in his in the country and and protects my voice to tell every single person in the country that they have agency, then he can't be a dictator, right? Because all of the power goes to the people, yes, if they actually do this. And so, so I'm so that's why I'm here. That's why we put on this conference. That's why I helped put on this conference. And reminded me something I spent three hours at dinner with, with John Perkins, who wrote Confessions of an economic hitman. And he said, listen, at the IMF, what, what I did, what I did all over the world is, is went to, went to people like bukele. And so in this hand I have a bribe bags full of money for you and your family and people that you care about. And in this hand I have a gun, right? And, and they always took the money, and if they didn't, we toppled them, and, and, and, and it so all of these things inside, the inside, that we know that the world's always look like this, right? We know from because it had to, because what I talk about all the time, the natural state of the free market is deflation. Anything that stops that has to be the control system. And we give the control system more of our power, wondering why it's the control system. And so in and then there's a bunch of Bitcoiners yelling at But Kelly, well, they still spend most of their money and measure Bitcoin

Mike Peterson: 9:22

They're the ones when they come to visit will in fiat currency. refuse to spend Bitcoin they want to spend.

Jeff Booth: 9:28

Yeah, it's wild. It's wild and so, and I get it right the So, so it's hard to see in yourself the thing you're doing to contribute, yeah, so it's easy to blame somebody else, and so, so I just let everybody be wherever they are in that space and focus on, am I am I aligned? Right? Am I aligned? And then I want to see everybody else where they are. And this is a journey over time. People. To eventually understand this, or they'll sell their Bitcoin for Fiat at a certain price, and they'll be back in that system.

Mike Peterson: 10:08

So did you get an impression during your meeting that bukele has been happy with how things have gone since they he made that decision to

Jeff Booth: 10:20

Yeah. So look at what's happened, right? So, so I was here, you know, I was here. I was here March and 22 because I wanted to see for myself again at that time, not what everybody said. I wanted to see. Could this make a difference? And all of the people, well, you know, because you were here way before you created Bitcoin Beach, right? You saw what impact hope and a circular economy. You could see the impact on the on the on the people, and you knew that. And then when bukele Amplified your work, right? What, what I saw now, at that time, Bitcoin Beach was almost this little light. And the rest of El Salvador was a little dimmer, yeah, because it was so early, right? And then, and then at the same time, like the day before, the day before my trip to the day before my speech here, here, it was all the gang warfare and and, and, and what made what, what actually intrigued me with the gang. Wasn't the gang warfare itself, but I brought my whole family. It was scary, right? You know how scary it was at that time, and and still, that people had that hope. Yeah, it was, it was wild, especially at Bitcoin beach. What? What in, in, in something that the day before, and then, and then bu Kelly rounded everyone up and put them in prison. But what was wild about the time was a coordinate, coordinated media response around the world that had never been here, that talked about bit Kelly is a dictator, that's what I love. They wouldn't even bother setting foot on the ground, but they're writing stories about what. But again, what that what? That tells me what? And I have to be curious. So what if I was measuring probabilities, and the measuring probabilities on what John Perkins said about the gun and what the world's always looked like a control system that was created as an event to try to to loosen bu Kelly's grip, because he had 95% approval rate rating, and tourisms were rushing in here. And so what would you do, if that from the control system, you would create a crisis to try to loosen that grip you would with. If you had three leather agencies, you would manufacture a crisis, just like we see in all countries, over and over again, and then why? I think that's actually what happened. I can't guarantee because of the coordinated response, because there is no way that nobody that cared about El Salvador ever, all of a sudden, could care so much that he's a dictator. It was like, but it was, it was the same message, same message everywhere in the world, that it just means it what it feels like is bukele, one up them to say, No, this is a free market, right? This is we're protecting our citizens. And in that, and in that, he actually gained more power, more more credibility with citizens. And so, so you asked, what the difference is, if people come down here, it is remarkable. It's still not everywhere like there's still, yeah, things that have to happen. There's still not every process. Not everybody's transacting in Bitcoin. But you walk around the streets and like this central district, it looks,

Unknown: 13:57

it looks like better than European city squares, right today, well, and five years ago, you, I mean, I only came down here a couple times when I had to, you did not want to come down here. Now. It's a beautiful place. I came here in 22 and you did not want to get like I had drivers with with guns and everything else to protect.

Jeff Booth: 14:17

And it was, it was it was dangerous, scary, and that was only three years ago. It's just remarkable what's happened.

Mike Peterson: 14:26

Yeah, it's here with some some friends of ours, and they were actually here, I think, in starting from 2005 to 2010 he actually got shot in the neck during his time here. And they were just, they're just blown away to see how it's changed here, like it is. It is amazing. It's amazing.

Jeff Booth: 14:45

So I would recommend everybody come down and see for themselves, because you it. It shatters your perspective of what you think this looks like through a media lens that is trying to make it look different, different. You to this is something. And I know so you've been here since 2005 right? Yeah, so and, and I know you, so I know you think like this. I know you've always thought like this. And so who better to be able to create a circular economy than you, right in this? But I've traveled to about 85 countries and and I always find that when you actually meet somebody where they are and talk about the things they care about most, we're just all we're all the same. We all that same hope, same dreams, same everything else. And it's it's this lens that's trying to divide us, to control us, this creating this nonsense, right? That it doesn't look like that. And so, yeah, it's and so when you meet people and you see where they are, you don't have to even agree with them, yeah, and everything else. But you'll find that the key things, the real deep things, most of the things, are easy to agree on.

Mike Peterson: 15:58

85 countries, that's, that's, that's impressive. I think I've been to 55 at this point. 85 that is just, I'm just, I know we're getting a little off topic here, but I'm just curious as to, what was that for work, or was that

Jeff Booth: 16:12

so so work? But I've just always been curious, yeah, and I, and I don't want to, I don't want to go and say, say, in a McMansion, where there's a copy of the US everywhere in the world. I want to go and see the people on the ground. I want to see what it looks like. So and, yeah, so I've always just been curious. And every time I go, I'm to somewhere else, I'm just reminded about it all looks the same. It's all it's all really beautiful people that are trapped in their system, in a bad system, yeah, yeah, no, that's,

Mike Peterson: 16:47

I think that's important for us to remember, especially in this day and age where it feels like that's heating up again. They're trying to, well,

Jeff Booth: 16:56

that's and even on this conference, I'm watching people feeding it, by talking about the other as the enemy, right? If we are the one, feeding it right through our time and energy in that system, there is no other enemy but us. Yeah, right. But it's easier to believe it's not you, it's somebody else, yeah. So it's it preys upon your own ego that it can't be you, it has to be somebody else and so, but that's why Bitcoin is, that was, that's why to go through Bitcoin and really understand it at depth, you then face a choice, almost an existential crisis, right? That the world that you lived in before, that you contributed to that you thought was right, that was stealing from people, and you were a part of it, and then you have to change, or you don't change, right? And every single person is going to go through that journey, right? And it's a really hard journey to go through. So if I understand it, for for a whole bunch of wealthy people that have thought that they were helping by donating to these NGOs around the world that make it worse, and that consolidates into a system to face what I just said to to realize that you were a participant that was stealing from the world. Yeah, is is something you don't want to face, right? It's easier to just say the system's too big. I just bury my head in the sand, or those crazy Bitcoiners or anything. But it's really because you don't want to investigate something that doesn't align with your belief system.

Mike Peterson: 18:31

Well, I think because everything in their world is aligned in that direction, that if a couple pieces start falling, they feel like their whole world will fall apart.

Jeff Booth: 18:42

Yeah, that's what that was. What would happen. It would it could crush you, yeah, right, as you reimagine what it could look like in a different system and providing value in a system that can't, can't cheat, and each of us has to make that choice for ourselves, yeah, I'm curious, did you when you were talking with bu Kelly? Did? Did you get into it all what his long term vision is for Bitcoin adoption here in El Salvador? So when, when I said that he wants his that not Chivo wallet, not anything else. He understands that people need to run nodes, people need to spend in Bitcoin, not a stable coin. People need to people need to run circular economies. People need to build on top of that. When, when he said that, it told me everything I needed to know. Told me that, that if he actually does, if he protects that, then, then companies are going to race here right, to also keep that protection right, because the rest of the world might not protect that yeah, and, and this is going to free markets are way more competitive than than closed markets, right? Because it's all of our ideas competing for and so those free market ideas will race here. And, and this will.

Unknown: 20:00

Be

Jeff Booth: 20:01

what this could look like, but what it could inspire as this trickles around the world and other countries try to copy that bold leadership, I think that's his legacy, if he does that, if he if he truly stays the course and does that, it won't just be a legacy in El Salvador or one of the greatest leaders in El Salvador. It'll be a legacy of one of the greatest leaders in the world ever. And do you think that he did? He feels like the progress he's seen in that is encouraging to him. Has it happened too slowly? Did you get any sense of what I'd say is this there's, I'm going to try to be measured here. Yeah, the

Unknown: 20:47

there's,

Jeff Booth: 20:50

I'm just my own view, or what it would look like if you were trying to lift a country out that was under this system forever, then a lot of those people wouldn't have the capacity to even see what you see, right? You wouldn't have that, that the infrastructure, yeah, in the people to be able to build something and so, so I think that's been that's probably been slower, right? Because, because you have to raise the capacity, people have to believe that they matter, that they don't have to steal. They don't have to be in the system with all the and that it's not going to be that agency is going to, not going to be taken away from them, right? And so a lot of people won't change right away. They'll stay in fear, yeah, right. And they have to change, and then they have to see what's possible out of their ideas. And then they have to, oh, my God, and see more and more and more. And so if you haven't, if you've lived always under a system of persecution where your family wasn't safe and everything else, you can't even see the new thing, right? Well, so what would that look like in a country like this? It would probably look like you could have an incredible leader, but it probably would look like you didn't have the capacity underneath it, right until you built the capacity underneath it to really start. So those things are happening together, right? Those people are taking some things working, some things aren't working. They're learning and they're building the capacity together.

Mike Peterson: 22:20

Well, that's, I think that's one of those that we want everything to happen overnight, but the reality is that these things, they actually need to take time to transition, because they happen too fast, and it's actually destructive to people's lives.

Jeff Booth: 22:34

Yeah, because it's us. Yeah, it's it's us, it's our beliefs. That is, that is creating the world that we we live in. It's no one else. It's and so if those beliefs are all over here in fear, and now you created something a jolt, right? It's going to take time for them to move but, but now talk about some of the successes. Talk about some of the early students that went through Kubo plus, or some of the education and everything else, like Mario and others, who just now running the AI strategy here, yeah, yeah, Mario is great. Like, some of the talent that's that's now that they can contribute is, is extraordinary, right? Because now they're unshackled and everything else. So it's each individual understanding that now they have an ability to contribute that is really driving that. But what will that do? Other people will see other students of Google Plus will look at Mario's success. He'll talk about what it looked like for him, and it'll expand, and it'll expand expand. Yeah,

Mike Peterson: 23:41

I think for governments, for somebody in government, to embrace Bitcoin, it is. It's so paradigm shifting, because governments around the world, the reason that they can exist the way they do is because they hide the way that they steal money from their citizens and so and it's not just by printing, it's also when you and when there's inflation, taxes go up because you're paying capital gains tax on phantom gains that you're not really gaining in real value, but in in Fiat terms, you have to pay. And so governments, you know, do you think that a place like El Salvador, that they can move in a direction where they can raise taxes in a clear, honest way to pay for government services without that Fiat inflation, if they move eventually to a Bitcoin standard completely, if they don't have any of that,

Jeff Booth: 24:36

if they don't, it will Fail. Right? The experiment of El Salvador will fail. It'll be captured by a control system, and it'll go right back if they don't, if they the only path out of this is a free market that allows that to happen. And so, I think, but Kelly understands this is he also is making the government smaller, yeah, he's also in line. Of these things that are driving the productivity, and as productivity flows to the citizens through Bitcoin, then the government, and I think smaller, and then,

Mike Peterson: 25:09

sorry to interrupt you, but I think that that's an important, important point for Bitcoiners to understand, because they think, because he is, he has centralized power, but he's so they assume that that means that he's making government bigger, but he's actually made government smaller as he centralized power. And so I think he's taken a system that was just unwieldy and wasteful and said, Hey, let's limit a lot of these things and bring it in and have it so they're conflating centralization with bigger government

Jeff Booth: 25:38

and and in some of those Bitcoiners without understanding that they would have like you should be. You should be your your spidey senses should be up. Only time will tell. Yeah, right, no, yeah, if he stays the course and but, but the reason I'm down here again is because I believe he would stay the course now he could fool me and go and go back. But truth is, any bitcoiner Could, right, they could just tomorrow, sell out and go to, we've seen lots of Bitcoiners do that coins and go to everything else, lots of this, of this model I use so that I'm not disappointed, and the model is, and it's from game theory, but in game theory, what game theory would say is, if you added two payoff incentives, you added you won't get caught and and you kept on increasing the reward, what game theory says is about 97 and a half percent of people. Sometimes it says 80% of people, but up to 97 and a half percent of people will defect or cheat, right? So what if you won't get caught? And the number went from $1,000 to 2000 to 10,000 to a million, to 10 million to a billion. At some point, 97% of people. It's point 5% of people you know, will take the money. What? And they won't say they chuck cheated. What they would say is, they they needed to do it before somebody else did it to them. Yeah, all the movies you watch or they did it because of what they did, they could do with it exactly. Yeah, the Mr. Beast, all these things, they're actually built on the same thing, same same premise, and but so that's the negative, and that's that means in game theory, it's the prediction of what we will do. And so throughout history, what would money look like? You won't get caught and and you could create this massive wealth, it would always look like that, and people would race to it, and it would always break money for forever. So what did Bitcoin do? The two and a half percent that won't cheat, are the notes? Yeah, are the people that. And we see some of these people cheat and go back into the other system, but as long as they keep on filling this up that that creates a new reality for the world that cannot be it cannot be broken and and in I think all of our constructs through time are actually through the same construct. Because who would we celebrate the Martin Luther Kings, the Gandhi's, everything else, the people that got killed by standing up for Jesus right, people who are killed for standing up for a principled right. What we would be celebrating is the thing in us that we couldn't hold right and and the we know we would take the money right, but when somebody doesn't, it's so powerful, right, that truth stands. It just it stands. It sounds true. So in time, we'll see if bukele is a two and a half percent or the 97 and a half percent, and if he's a two and a half percent, he adds his node to our nodes and all of our nodes, and we build and the world moves there faster.

Mike Peterson: 28:58

What do you see as the timeline for do you feel bitcoin is inevitable at this point, and what do you see as the timeline? And what will it be? Small nation states first? Will it be governments? Will be the last thing that come on board? What do you see as that timeline to get us to that future?

Jeff Booth: 29:19

So you already live in that future. I already live in that future. So my day, if I said, What does my day look like? What does my life look like? It looks like a complete reflection of me living in an honest market around honest people and a beautiful thing that's that's expanding. And then, even better, I Why wouldn't yell at this other market, or what the whole thing looks like, and all those people stuck in that. Why am I? Why would I yell at them? What the free market demands is, you create value for people so if they don't see something, and you can create tons of value for things they don't know they need yet, privacy, tech, all of this stuff. Then, then, what the free what? What you could. Create the only way you get paid in the free market is creating value for other people. Yeah. So that would create the greatest opportunity to create value if you moved your time from the from the broken market to the free market. And so my life is just that is so it feels so easy. It feels like it's it's getting easier and easier and easier. I'm surrounded by brilliant people building like you, right, people that I that, that I create friendships with and deep, caring friend, because they're also doing the same thing, and they're in their part, and every one of us is winning as a result of that, and so. So why would I yell at a system that is giving me an opportunity to create value and and, and so? So, when does it happen? To get back to your question, it happens individually by each person wanting to do it doesn't happen, and there is no bang, and it just happens. Every single person has an opportunity to live in this today, when they when they choose to. If you spend 1% of your time in 90 certain 9% your life will probably be a match of that. You spend 2% it'll start to get better. If you spend 4% it'll get better. If you spend 50% it got a lot better, right? And, and, and then you'll stop worrying about what everybody else is doing, what and use you'll be at peace. You can sleep well at night.

Mike Peterson: 31:34

So I'm curious. You obviously have a, have a huge following in the Bitcoin space. You have people that look to you and you know, and I think that comes with the responsibility to you know, it's a heavy responsibility. Sometimes when people are looking to you, I know you chose to move and correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe you completely moved off Twitter and and even though you had a huge following, and so I'm curious as to explain to people, what was your thought process behind that, and why it was, rather than having a bigger reach in that audience, why you were willing to give that up and to move to noster when a system you felt was reflecting of your own value,

Jeff Booth: 32:18

I think it's actually the same. The reason I moved to Bitcoin, and moved all my time to Bitcoin, as much time as I could to Bitcoin. It's I wanted to contribute to the world. I wanted to see, and that was another piece of the protocol that was not centralized anymore. I wanted to contribute to it. Now, even I am not. I don't believe everybody should do what I did. I don't believe that if they want to do what? But a couple events conspired at the same time that centralized system, then, through that centralized system, hacked my Twitter account. Then you tried to try to hack everything else of mine, and all of the bots and all of the nonsense and you could tell it wasn't getting fixed. It was the thing that was keeping people there and stuck in it. And I just said, I'm not chasing my Twitter. I'm not doing this. I don't need it. Why am I? I don't need to do anything, right? I need to make sure my time is valuable with my people I care about and everything else. So so that that that spurred me to do it. But again, could some of my words meet more people if I was still on Twitter? Yeah, probably, and some people who would need to see it. But the other side of that is when they see me somewhere else. Somebody shares my thing on Twitter. They have to look me up on Noster, right? And so if they want to, if they want to engage, so it's just my way of deciding the time I spend. But you could, you could like, that's why this is then, why would I? Why would I go on a podcast that would be on YouTube, right? Because that's centralized. And so these, these the things I try to spend my time doing with the things that I think are the right, right things, and people should spend whatever time they think doing what they think is right. So I don't, I don't judge somebody else for what they think. It's just I decided. I decided I wanted to spend more time on Master. No, makes sense. I don't want to keep you too much longer, because I know you've had a long

Mike Peterson: 34:37

already, but I don't know if you want to talk about ego, death, capital, or any of the other things that you're working on right now, and leave people with where they can follow you or whatever else you want.

Jeff Booth: 34:47

So I guess I don't want to promote Ego Death capital from unless somebody was an entrepreneur is looking for capital, where we have a series a fund now and and it's been so. Remarkable, the things I get to see because of contributing and into that but, but there's other really good venture funds in Bitcoin too, and so, so I just, what I would like to see is a lot more venture in in the Bitcoin space. And I'd like to and what, what will probably happen is our returns are going to I think they're going to be so extraordinary. Some of the companies are already profitable. They're adding Bitcoin every single month, and they're growing very fast. And so I don't think there's a price in the Fiat world that could, that could pay for what, how we see this and what's eventually going to happen that new exchanges, New nasdaqs, are going to be built on Bitcoin right instead of the other. So, so that transition of what this look looks like. I can't believe more people aren't doing it right. I can't believe, I really can't believe that that there's not tons of of money because all of the other money is getting repriced. All of the other companies, Google's cash flows are getting repriced. Yeah, the all of these Apple's are getting repriced every day in this new system. And so the company's creating value in Bitcoin and adding big Bitcoin. Try to name the multiple you would pay out of the Fiat dollar, right?

Mike Peterson: 36:25

No. And I love that you guys have taken that on, because it when bitcoin is your hurdle rate. That really is a you know, that can seem daunting. But I also think as Bitcoiners, we want to be productive. We don't want to just sit back and wait for number to go up. We want to be producing things in the world. So I love to see, you know, investors putting money into Bitcoin companies that are doing real things.

Jeff Booth: 36:47

So that's, that's what you just said, that so perfectly. Bitcoins your hurdle rate. If you didn't think you could outperform it, then stay in Bitcoin, but, but, but, if you know that that is a hurdle rate, then the, then the only answer is, how can you collect more Bitcoin by providing value to other other people? And you might have to fund a gap to create the value of the technology, or whatever you do, and, but, but, yes, that's, that's the hurdle, right? It doesn't, it actually doesn't change anything. It's just, you're dealing with an honest system. Yeah, and you're, you're investing on top of that. So encourage people, if you haven't yet, I know most people already have, but you haven't read the price of tomorrow, definitely picked up, pick up a copy. What else do we want to leave people with? No, I did never update the website, but Jeff booth.ca, the only reason I say that is any my, my end pub, any social media that I'm on will be on there. If it's not on there, it's not me, because, you know how many scams, right? And so, so don't follow me without finding out the real me, right? And I will. And the other thing, I will never ask for your money.

Mike Peterson: 38:01

Pretty much anybody reputable in this space will never write you and offer you an investment opportunity or ask you for money. So, yeah, well, hey, it's so good spending some time with you here in El Salvador again, and next, next time you're down, we'll, we'll record in, in the studio. So you gotta, you gotta bring your wife down and actually enjoy the beaches there for a little bit. So thanks, Jeff, thank you. Bye.