Is the IMF Quietly Controlling El Salvador’s Bitcoin Experiment? @EfratFenigson ft Mike Peterson​

In this episode, Efrat sits down with Mike Peterson to hear the story of Bitcoin Beach from his perspective. Mike explains how a small surf town in El Salvador, El Zonte, became the birthplace of the first Bitcoin circular economy. What started with simple incentives for kids to stay in school and help their community grew into a model of financial inclusion that changed how families and businesses interact with money.

Mike shares how Bitcoin adoption reshaped daily life during the COVID-19 crisis, when families depended on it for food and essentials. He describes how the local financial system evolved as people began saving for the first time, moving from a “live for today” mindset to understanding Bitcoin as digital gold. This shift brought new confidence, a sense of community empowerment, and real economic opportunities.

The conversation highlights how Bitcoin Beach influenced tourism, attracted global investors, and inspired dozens of similar projects worldwide. Mike also reflects on El Salvador’s unique position, its challenges with the IMF, and what it means for a country to pursue monetary independence. His story shows how grassroots adoption can spark broader change and why circular economies may be key to financial resilience in the future.

-Bitcoin Beach Team

Connect and Learn more about Efrat Fenigson:
X: https://x.com/efenigson
YT: https://www.youtube.com/@EfratFenigson 

Support and follow Bitcoin Beach:
X: @BitcoinBeach
IG: @bitcoinbeach_sv
TikTok: @livefrombitcoinbeach
Web: bitcoinbeach.com

Browse through this quick guide to learn more about the episode: 

00:00 How Bitcoin Beach began in El Zonte
01:50 Life in El Salvador before Bitcoin adoption
03:45 Why Bitcoin incentives mattered for local youth
06:40 How COVID-19 accelerated Bitcoin use in the community
08:28 The role of Bitcoin in helping businesses recover
09:33 Building a new culture of saving through Bitcoin
12:07 Bitcoin adoption beyond El Zonte
13:26 The rise of Bitcoin tourism in El Salvador
16:15 New circular Bitcoin economies around the world
20:39 How the IMF views El Salvador’s Bitcoin strategy
23:49 Can the IMF pressure El Salvador to back down
26:23 What freedom money means for everyday life

Live From Bitcoin Beach

Transcript

Mike Peterson: 0:00

And they knew I was one of those crazy Bitcoin people, so they came to me, said, Hey, how can we use this? And so there's probably, now, probably about 40 different circular Bitcoin economies out there. We were shocked. We had, you know, the young kids that were working with us that would save up enough to buy a phone or, you know, a new bike or a motorcycle. And these were kids that had never saved before. I'm sure it excited them. Oh, yeah, when people make that jump from just seeing it as digital gold to seeing it as freedom money, like to me, that is the important jump for them to make, I agree with you.

Efrat: 0:37

All right. Mike Peterson, Yeah, hello, it's good to be here. Thanks for being with me. Thanks for agreeing. I know you're very busy, you're very popular, and people want to talk to you. Oh, no, I look forward to this type of thing. Cool. So yeah, I'm excited to actually meet you in your base in El Salvador. Very we haven't been there yet, right? No, it's gonna be my first time, and I'm so curious, and I've been following your work and everyone's work, everyone that I know that lives there, and I've read your story that you've published a couple of years ago in Bitcoin magazine, and about the meeting you once had. So I'd love to like introduce to my audience who you are. What happened back in was it 2019 when you had that meeting, and then in 22 when you started rolling out this vision? And where? Well, no, we started rolling it out in 1919 Yeah, it was just later that the government made the official decision, yeah. So let's start like from start where it started. And so we had been living in El Salvador for a number of years, working in the community, there, for people that know some of the history of El Salvador, it for the past in between 2008

Mike Peterson: 1:50

in 2016 it usually had the highest murder rate in the world. And it was, I mean, it was, yeah, I think it was like, got up to, like, 120 murders per 100,000 people per year. So it was, yeah, it was off the chart, higher than most war zones, than it was, yeah, the gangs really controlled, you know, huge swaths of the area, including the small town that we lived in. And so we were working within the community to really try to keep the youth out of the gangs to encourage them to continue in school. And you get there in the first place I was went there on a surf trip. Okay, yeah, so I went there in 2004 on a surf trip, and just fell in love with the people. And they have good waves there. The water is warm. So we decided by a place there. And then, you know, over the years, we got to know a number of people, and we were attending a church in the capital city, and got to know people that were running like children's homes, and a couple that was working with women who have been victims of sex trafficking. And so we decided to move down to El Salvador, kind of support all these organizations behind the scenes, and then also in the community where we're at in El zonte, get involved with with the youth there. And so that was, we had a business in the US that we'd go back, and it's seasonal, so we'd go back every year for like, three or four months, run our business, and then come the rest of year in El Salvador. And through, like, some connections we and but still wanted to use the Bitcoin. They had to do something good in the world. And so they had hired somebody as an intermediary that kind of shield them. And so we just presented what we were doing. And I understand their vision, that the donor wanted to see circular Bitcoin economy started, and people, really, to leave the Fiat world. And so came back to them with this crazy proposal that, hey, we'll do it, you know, in this community that we're living in and a part of. And I thought for sure they would say, like, that's crazy, but they went along with it. And so, yeah, so that's how it all started. And so we, we started just injecting Bitcoin into the community through, you know, incentives, and incentivizing kids to stay in school, to get good grades, to clean the river and the beach, we'd pay them in Bitcoin, and, you know, through that, then they had Bitcoin to spend and hand it out. No, we want to, yeah, it's very important that the people have skin in the game and they earn now, we did shift a little bit because then covid Hit probably three or four months after we had started, and at that time, people were going hungry. They couldn't work in El Salvador is a very poor country, so hardly anybody has any savings. Even most people only have one or two days worth of food in their home. It's not like in the US where, you know, and at my house in the US, I could go for two weeks, probably on the food I just have in my pantry and refrigerator. But they were they couldn't work. They didn't have any money to eat. And so at that point, we felt okay, kind of shifting during that time, since people weren't allowed to work, we started doing distribution. Of Bitcoin to was probably 90% of the families in the community, wow. So we were sending them, you know, it wasn't in dollar terms. It was probably 40, $50 a month that we were sending them. It wasn't enough to cover all of their needs, but it was enough to cover, you know, they could buy their basics, their their beans and their tortillas, and so through that. It kind of turbocharged the the use of Bitcoin, because the all the stores wanted to accept it, because that was all everybody had. And, you know, the people also had the time because they were bored. So they had the time to, you know, dig into Bitcoin and to research it, because nobody could work during that time. And so it was kind of weird how, you know, that all came together, and I feel like that had a big impact on the uptake of Bitcoin. And then obviously, when, once the covid lockdowns ended, we we pulled back from that, and we pushed more into, you know, we did have, like, a work program, because a lot of people were out of work after that time, and the businesses were kind of slow to rehire. So for the few months after the lockdown ended, we paid people to repair roads and do things like that, and, you know, but, but with the incentive to get them back in the regular workforce,

Unknown: 6:10

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Efrat: 6:40

flash. Did El Salvador go all in on the lockdown?

Mike Peterson: 6:44

Oh, they went really, totally all in. I was very against how they handled it in the beginning, but to their credit, they reversed course before most people did so they they actually locked down in El Salvador before they even had one case of covid, just like overnight, they closed the airports that it was, and it was a very strict lockdown. They had soldiers on the street. You weren't allowed that. Yeah, it was, it was, I totally disagreed with the way that it did it. And then they realized, but then I think they realized, like, this is crazy, like it's, it's not one, it's not helping to it's actually hurting people and have them locked in their homes. And so as other countries were, were actually just implementing their lockdowns. I was talking with a reverse course, encourage people to get outside and get sunlight and exercise, and lifted their lock, lifted the lockdowns. And then, actually, I think Bitcoin played a big role in that, because they had Bitcoiners speaking in to the government. And even the first year that they did the adopting Bitcoin Conference, mid conference, they got rid of the requirement to have

Unknown: 7:52

the distancing, the

Mike Peterson: 7:54

testing requirement, all right, yeah, so they because they were having speakers and stuff that their tests, you know, their flights got delayed, and their tests weren't valid anymore, and so they were being locked out. So they got rid of the testing requirement. I am so impressed. So, like I said, I didn't agree with the way they handled the first but they definitely reversed course and how to they Overall, I'd say they did a good

Efrat: 8:15

job. Okay, good. Wow. Okay, so then you started, and this is when covid started to, like fade, then you were helping stimulate the local economy. In Horizonte,

Mike Peterson: 8:28

we did a number of things too, also with businesses. We said, hey, we'll pay half the employee salary in Bitcoin if you'll rehire them. Because businesses were afraid to rehire, they didn't know, you know, the economy going to come back. And so we did a lot of things to try to get people back to work. Did it work? Yeah, they really it was. We had in El zonte. It recovered much quicker than the other areas. And I think it's and it hasn't stopped. It just keeps we had the plus two of now, all these Bitcoiners were flowing in, right? And so the tourism was off the chart then. So, yeah, how many people live in El John to more or less. It's about 3000 3000 Yeah, very small community,

Efrat: 9:05

okay, and the whole community today, you can say, is aware of Bitcoin, or using Bitcoin like this is,

Mike Peterson: 9:11

yeah, I would everybody's aware of it, for sure, yeah. I would say probably 90% of the families have used it at some point, I would say, you know, probably the majority of the families use it, you know, at least, yeah, and almost all of the businesses, I'd say probably 80 to 90% of the businesses there, except Bitcoin.

Efrat: 9:34

Did it do anything to their savings?

Mike Peterson: 9:37

Consciousness? El Salvador, historically, is not out of a culture of savings at all. So I think part of that is, is because a lot of money comes from remittances. And so it seems, you know, people are receiving it. They're not really working for it, so they're quicker to spend it on fast food. Or you you know, El Salvador is super poor, but you look at all the fast. Food restaurants. And you're like, how do these, like, stay in business? Well, a lot of it's because you have this kind of welfare type money that comes in through the remittances. And so historically, people have just not, they've also just for the history of the the gangs there and extortion and, you know, people not knowing if they're even going to live another year, they had kind of had this thing of live for the day. And once they started using Bitcoin, you see this kind of shift in their mind, because they're like, if I spend it now, it probably can buy me twice as much if I save it. And so you have them start thinking about saving for the first time. And we were shocked. We had, you know, the young kids that were working with us that would save up enough to buy a phone or, you know, a new bike or a motorcycle. And these are kids that had never saved before. I'm sure it excited them. Oh, yeah. And just, I think, too, to be able to see that for them to understand the first time what money is, that it's kind of their stored energy and and effort and value, and so if they spend it now, they're not going to have it in the future. So the whole deferred gratification thing really started to click for them. And we saw that kind of bleed over into education, even where they would start thinking, well, it's better for me to stay in school, because even though I'm not earning a wage during that time, I'll be able to earn more in the future and have better opportunities. And so it really bitcoin does change people.

Efrat: 11:19

Yeah, I guess also on the moral level, the self fulfillment that you feel when you see that you you can actually create the fact that you know you now have a phone, you now have a means of communication. And I did that, I did that, and then you start rebuilding your confidence in yourself. And it's like a self sovereignty, circular process kind of thing, 100%

Mike Peterson: 11:41

and you don't have any gatekeepers telling you you can't do it. So, like, for a lot of people, they couldn't get bank accounts, or the banks would charge them so much fees, it wasn't worthwhile. And so they never, like, started this process of really engaging in the financial system. Now they're able to kind of leapfrog and bypass, yeah, this self sovereign financial system.

Efrat: 11:59

And how is it, at large, outside of auntie, inside, maybe San Salvador, or even greater, El Salvador.

Mike Peterson: 12:07

So there's definitely, it's not like everybody's using Bitcoin. The majority of purchases in the country are still made in dollars, for sure. But it process, yeah, and that's what like when it when it first, when the law first passed, I I tweeted out, I said, you know, a year from now, everybody will say how this failed. You know, three or four years from now, they'll, they'll start to be like, Well, maybe it's kind of working. In a decade from now, everybody will say, like, oh, it was obvious. And so that's been, you know, really interesting to see is, that's actually what's happening. You see now, you know, the all the major supermarket chains now take Bitcoin, the major department stores, we're seeing gas stations now and then, just 1000s of local, small businesses. And so it's initially, there was a lot of people that were hesitant, and even people that we went to talk to like, no, no, no. Now they're coming to us and saying, Okay, how do I onboard the Bitcoin? You know, they they see that the businesses that are accepting it are thriving and are getting more customers and are saving and having investment money to grow their businesses. And so we're seeing this FOMO but, but in a good way, like, you know, like, Hey, this is yeah, like, we're missing out on this economic opportunity.

Efrat: 13:18

Amazing. Does it help to get all the Bitcoiners coming as tourists who give me like that even more. Yeah.

Mike Peterson: 13:26

I mean, definitely. So one that's a huge injection of Bitcoin into the economy, because you, you know, when you're bitcoinizing an economy, it has to come from the outside. There wasn't much Bitcoin in El Salvador prior to when we started. And so now you have this injection of Bitcoin into into the economy, but it also, I think, helps show people like, wow, nobody used to want to come to El Salvador, and now we have people from all over the world that are not just visiting, but a lot of them are moving. They're moving their families there. And so I think for them, that makes them realize, wow, Bitcoin is like a real thing that's going to be really important, that's bringing conferences. It's bringing, I mean, the number of and just like the amount of investment that's coming in for the country. I mean, there's, you know, been probably a couple dozen billionaires that have come to El Salvador, where, in the past, nobody would have had any interest of even, you know, they'd be scared to even, like, stop by now, you have people that are there looking to invest in the country. And so the local people see this and realize that there's a transformation,

Efrat: 14:30

wanting to learn, yeah, like, look at that case study, and and learn. Okay? And so I have a couple of things I want to take you to. First of all, I saw your interview with Murph, and the kind of stuff he does there. And I'm like, okay, so Mike is completely viral because, like, people are looking at you, what you have done, how you have kind of infected your local community with your passion, but with this, also with this very practical solution for life. And. Know, you you get other people coming in and doing similar things, like smaller communities projects, and it's just starting to, like, virally take place. And, I mean, I find that so inspiring and so amazing. So on your podcast, you interview all these people that have all these amazing entrepreneurship projects or or initiatives. So can you tell me a bit about, like, how do you find these people? Do they find you? How does it, is it really a viral effect that you're noticing?

Mike Peterson: 15:33

Yeah, I mean, most, mostly, they, they, they'll reach out to me and, you know, and that's what I love about the podcast. I get to, you know, all these people that otherwise I wouldn't get to know. And, you know, in that format, you can dig deep really quickly, and so you can get to know people like

Efrat: 15:48

also your Murph, but also your episode. I'll recommend to the audience your episode with me, Premiere Bitcoin with John and with Lena. Yeah, yeah, both great

Mike Peterson: 15:58

projects. No, I feel so fortunate, because I get the, you know, I get to sit down with all these amazing people, and a big part of my time now is devoted to, we're working with all these Bitcoin circular economies around the world, and so we do a lot of coaching, a lot of supporting with them, and not and we've, we're

Efrat: 16:15

very careful. We don't want them community, yeah, like community builders, yeah.

Mike Peterson: 16:20

So there's probably, now, probably about 40 different circular Bitcoin economies out there. And initially there was a lot of pressure on us, like, Hey, you guys need to be in charge of this, and it needs we're like, no, no. It needs to be decentralized. Like Bitcoin will help, will share what works for us what didn't, but each community is going to need to figure out what works for them. And so right now, we try to just focus on being able to support all these other communities that

Efrat: 16:44

that are out Costa Rica, South Africa,

Mike Peterson: 16:47

Brazil, yeah. I mean, in in Africa, there's, you know, probably at least a dozen that are there. There's even some that are springing up now in the US and right, it's Latin America is really big. In La there's, there's somebody starting one, and there's big Salvadoran population in LA, and so they're focusing on that. But yeah, so we're seeing all these things pop up over all over the world, and that's what's so exciting to kind of ripple out. And then El Salvador too. There's Berlin now, which is, is a kind of community in the in the coffee country that has really replicated what's happened in El sante. And so

Efrat: 17:24

this is Berlin El Salvador. Yeah. People think Berlin German, yeah,

Mike Peterson: 17:30

which, it's funny. The Berlin El Salvador was, was actually founded by people from Germany. So, but yeah, so it's, it's interesting

Efrat: 17:43

Germany, our German friends in Indonesia as well. Yeah, in Bali,

Mike Peterson: 17:47

yeah, there's a big project in Bali. And so in each in like Bali, they

Efrat: 17:52

have, they have goosebumps, like just hearing all the names of the place.

Mike Peterson: 17:56

In Bali, they have some unique challenges, because, you know, they're not allowed to use Bitcoin as as to purchase things by law, but they found kind of a workaround way to do it. And so each community finds their own way of, you know, meeting the needs of what's happening in their local area.

Efrat: 18:14

Okay, I wanted to ask you about the IMF, but before that, because I'm all like goosebumps. Why are you in Bitcoin? Like, what is this for you? What does it mean? Because your ripple effect and your impact is so big, the way I see it, and I guess you know that. I guess you feel that like for you, yeah,

Mike Peterson: 18:34

for me, it's always been, I've came to it through the monetary side. People who know me know I'm not a not so much investment, but just seeing how monetary systems impact like, why are some countries poor and some countries wealthy? And obviously there's a lot of complex factors that come into it, but the monetary system plays a big role in that. And so for me, you know, I've always been wired as a libertarian and feel the government shouldn't control money. And so when bit King, when Bitcoin came along, I was like, Oh, wow, this, this is amazing. So that's kind of where I was drawn into it. I learned the technology side. You know, as I went, that was the more of the challenge where a lot of, you know, some people in the space come in and it from the technology side. And but for me, it was definitely the the money. Bitcoin is money amazing.

Efrat: 19:23

And you feel like what you're doing today is like walking that path, like actually implementing the vision.

Mike Peterson: 19:30

I mean, I feel super fortunate just to be able to kind of focus on on that. Yeah, it's the to see Bitcoin actually being used day to day transactionally. It's interesting. You come to the Bitcoin conferences, you know, even like we're here in Lugano, and you know, a lot of the people here maybe haven't even ever bought anything with Bitcoin in their life. They haven't understood what it is to use Bitcoin as freedom money. And so we love being able to share with people and even seeing what's happening here in Lugano, where now all these businesses are. Accepting bitcoin. And you know, I think for when people make that jump from just seeing it as digital gold to seeing it as freedom money, like to me, that is the important jump for them to make.

Efrat: 20:12

I agree with you. And so when you say, What's your take on the statement of the IMF about El Salvador recently, you know, they came out and said, El Salvador may be going too far or too fast with their implementation of Bitcoin. Maybe we need to, like, curb their enthusiasm a little bit. What's your take on that? What do you make of that? And how do you think bukele And the state sees it?

Mike Peterson: 20:39

Yeah, I mean, I don't think anybody in the Bitcoin community is shocked that the IMF doesn't like what's happening in El Salvador, but I think you see in their statements that they're backtracking when they when it first happened. They were like, No, you know, we're demand. They were basically demanding that El Salvador, like, totally walk away from Bitcoin and get rid of that, and we're threatening them, and El Salvador has just pushed forward, and so now you see them kind of like, well, we're encouraging them to, you know, put some curbs on it, or to go a little slower, but I think they're being forced to walk back by the fact that the government, El Salvador is stood firm like we're not going to be controlled by the IMF or any outside forces that, you Know, they have their own independence and their own sovereignty, and so they've made this decision. And so I think, I think the IMF is going to buckle, and I think that, but I think that they're just, they see this coming, that as countries start to adopt Bitcoin, it's, it's going to make the IMF obsolete. So I think that that is their fear. And, you know, obviously they want to be able to control things. When they have countries under their thumb, they can dictate terms to

Efrat: 21:46

them. Do you think they're not going to try and use any, I don't know, severe measures to stop El Salvador? I don't know if they can. I'm just asking, yeah. I mean, I because they have done similar things to other countries in the past.

Mike Peterson: 22:00

No. And I think that they will make some attempts, but I think that, I mean, bukele is just a very sharp leader, and I don't think he's going to get boxed into a corner. And so I think they're going to try to find a way out that saves base for them, but I don't see the government in El Salvador buckling to their demands. I mean, they've, you know, they've received a ton of criticism, you know, since the beginning, and when they started, it was when bitcoin price was going down. So would have been very easy for them to walk back from, and most politicians would have, but they stood firm and said, No, we have a long term vision with this, and we know where bitcoin is going. And so, yeah, I don't think the IMF is going to have any, any real Sway on them. I mean, I'm not saying that they won't negotiate with them. You know, they have to be pragmatic too and but they're making big decisions to make sure that the, you know, entities like IMF can't control them. Their their recent budget that they announced, I believe they they cut the budget by 10% and it's not a lot of times what governments talk about cutting the cut from what they planned on increasing. So instead, yeah, instead of increasing 10% we're only increasing 5% so we cut it by half. You know, they'll, they'll play games like that, where El Salvador is literally spending, you know, their proposal for the budget is spending 10% less this year than they spent last year, and to not have, not be reliant on the So, yeah, you see them kind of shifting away from, you know, the past, governments would do anything they could to get money from the IMF Exactly. The reality is, most time they weren't going to be in power when it had to be paid back. So for them, it was free money, and they would give them some off the top, and, you know, not worry about the consequences. So I see El Salvador's kind of pushing back on that shows just the strength of leadership there

Efrat: 23:49

that's spectacular. Okay, so when I come to El Salvador, I would love to sit with you for a longer talk, to go deeper on some of these topics, but also more about you and the kind of work you do there. And so I want, like, I encourage my my audience, start following you on Twitter, where they can

Mike Peterson: 24:06

follow you so they can follow Bitcoin Beach is the or Twitter handle, and then we have a podcast and YouTube at live from Bitcoin beach.

Efrat: 24:14

And Bitcoin Beach is not the name of the place, right? It's the name of an

Mike Peterson: 24:18

app or no. So Bitcoin Beach was, was just the name of this, the idea to basically Bitcoin eyes the whole coastal area of El Salvador. And so for a lot of people, it's they now think of El Dante as Bitcoin Beach, because that's where it started. But more it was just kind of a grassroot dream of, let's see the way Bitcoin can impact the, you know, the whole coast. And so that's kind of the the bigger goal. And originally, there was a wallet that we we Galloway, the company developed specifically. They came and saw what we were doing. Wanted to participate. Wanted to build a wallet that was not built for tech people, but for people on the ground. And so they built a wallet, which we called the bit. And beach wallet. Originally, we've, we've since changed the name, and then that the wellness would change to blink, Mm, hmm, more because it wanted to grow outside of El Salvador, but also we just wanted to, you know, represent the difference between the grassroots project and, you know, the wallet is a commercial endeavor, and so we felt at that time it was good to have a little bit of separation, just so. But we're still, you know, we love the wallet and everything they've done. And, yeah, it's been an amazing project. And it's really, I think, without the wallet that they developed, I'm not sure if the project would have been nearly as successful, because it really made it easy for the businesses and people to

Efrat: 25:35

use. I use blink as well. It's the same one, right? Yeah, yeah. I use blink too. Yeah. Just download

Mike Peterson: 25:41

it. Very easy, yeah, very easy. Unless, unless you're, unless you're a US citizen, they block you right now. I really, yeah, yeah. It's like, you know, now it's like, if you're from the US or Iran or North Korea, you know, it's we're on

Efrat: 25:57

that Iran and North Korea are on the same page right now?

Mike Peterson: 26:03

Yeah, it's like you're an American, so it's crazy.

Efrat: 26:08

Damn. What's happening? Wow. Okay, right. So Mike, any any like last thoughts, things you want to share with the audience, they're gonna see us soon in a in a cool, long episode, but until then, any thoughts you want to share, I

Mike Peterson: 26:23

just encourage people coming to El Salvador, there's been a ton of, like, hit pieces and negative things written about the country, and so I encourage people to get their feet on the ground there and see it for themselves. Yeah, it's really

Efrat: 26:36

being crammed. Believe that that's happening so quickly as well.

Mike Peterson: 26:40

It's, I mean, I live there, and I'm like, you know, one week, the next I drive down, I'm like, wow, they're building more here, and that they're improving the so it's, yeah, wow. I come back from this trip here to Switzerland, I'll go back. You know, it

Efrat: 26:54

reminds me of my son, who's now, he's 15, but when he started, like, growing physically, 1313, and a half every morning, I would wake up, he would look taller, like

Mike Peterson: 27:09

what happened during the night,

Efrat: 27:12

like that in El Salvador. Okay, I'm coming to see it with my own eyes. Thank you so much, Mike. I appreciate your time.

Mike Peterson: 27:19

We look forward to having you in El Salvador. Thank you.