Even Saifedean Missed the Fiat Trap That’s Breaking Bitcoiners in El Salvador | Acreonte

What happens when a Salvadoran developer quits trading shitcoins, starts driving Uber, and ends up shaping national Bitcoin education policy? In this episode, Mike sits down with Acreonte, one of the first graduates of the Cubo Plus program and now a key player behind El Salvador’s push to integrate Bitcoin into its institutions.

Acreonte shares what it’s really like to live on a Bitcoin standard, from earning SATs at Plan B Network to spending them with the Blink wallet at farmers markets and meetups across the country. He also opens up about the unexpected shift back into fiat life when he joined the Ministry of Education, trading T-shirts and cold wallets for suits and bureaucratic emails.

They talk about the cultural tension between fiat and Bitcoin mindsets, what it takes to build real dev talent from the ground up, and how programs like Cubo Plus are helping Salvadoran youth go from zero to building on Lightning. Along the way, Acreonte reflects on his own transformation, from civil war survivor to casino game developer to educator trying to future-proof public schools.

This episode is a snapshot of what it means to build from within, in a country betting on Bitcoin not just for headlines but for human capital. If you’ve ever wondered what it actually looks like to go from shitcoiner to builder, hit subscribe, share this with a fiat friend, and consider switching out your bank app for a proper wallet like Blink.

-Bitcoin Beach Team

Connect and Learn more about Acreonte

https://x.com/btchieftain
https://x.com/planb_network
https://x.com/cuboplus
https://www.blink.sv/
https://planb.network/en 

Support and follow Bitcoin Beach:

X: @BitcoinBeach
IG: @bitcoinbeach_sv
TikTok: @livefrombitcoinbeach
Web: bitcoinbeach.com

Browse through this quick guide to learn more about the episode:

00:00 Why would someone move to El Salvador for Bitcoin?
02:16 What was it like growing up during El Salvador's civil war?
06:56 How did Acreonte discover programming and tech in the 1990s?
12:15 What brought him to London and how did he break into tech?
21:17 What is the connection between crypto trading and casino psychology?
28:08 How does Salvadoran work culture compare to the UK?
33:45 How did he first hear about Bitcoin and start investing?
40:00 What is the Cubo Plus program and how do you get accepted?
54:49 What was it like building Bitcoin projects and learning from top educators?
1:07:34 Why did he leave Plan B Network to work in El Salvador’s Ministry of Education?
1:21:30 How does earning in Bitcoin change how you think and spend money?

Live From Bitcoin Beach

Transcript

Acreonte: 0:00

I knew that I wanted a change in my life, but I wanted to do stuff, and I was so excited, like, Oh, my God, this is absolutely amazing. Looking at the president from my country, a country that everyone mentions, everyone at that time, right? Everyone will mention only the bad things, bad news. That was not bad news. So for me, it was like, wow, this is amazing. And I asked them, Where are you guys from? And it was like, I'm from Paris, and I'm from Brazil. I remember, she said, yeah, what are you doing here? Where are you? Are you visiting somewhere? Are you going to El zonte or something? No, we live here. I was surprised. I'm like, What do you mean? You live here? Yeah, we moved to El Salvador. Why? Why would you leave Rio Paris? You know? Why? Because here is better. How come? I was so surprised. You know, I have for me, there was a new thing that having people from other countries saying El Salvador is better than I want to live there. My Love from my country has grown so much I believe that what is happening here is going to help somehow the whole world.

Unknown: 1:22

You decided

Mike Peterson: 1:38

today to have somebody who's kind of grown up in here in El Salvador, and is, I don't know if you're quite as old as me, but at least closer to my age. Usually when we get Salvadorans in here, they're very young. And so be excited to hear your history in El Salvador and kind of what's brought you through working through Cuba plus, and then plan B, and then I know now you're working with the Department of Education, which they're doing quite a bit with Bitcoin education now. So yeah, just please introduce yourself, and I'll probably interrupt you with some things along the way. So

Acreonte: 2:16

perfect. So thank you for having me. First of all. Well, my nickname is a creonte. I'm Salvadorian. I was born in the 70s, mid 70s, pretty close, yeah. So, yeah, I grew up here in El Salvador in the 80s. You know, there was this civil war. Were you in San Salvador? I was in San Salvador. And to be honest, from my point of view, right, as a child, growing up in the 80s, the war didn't actually happen in San Salvador. Yeah, that's what I've heard from people there, yeah, it was mostly outside, you know, that we could hear in the news that something had happened, and maybe you didn't go certain places. Yeah, that's right, that's right. But for us, it was like, normal, let's say every now and then, yeah, there would be some bombs, yeah? Because, you know, the the guerillas, they will decide, okay, we want to do some damage to the government. But actually they will damage the population, to be honest, because suddenly we will be like, okay, there is no no electricity, yeah. How do I do my homework, right? So things like that. So

Mike Peterson: 3:27

how old were you? I know there was at one time, like, an offensive where they came into San Salvador, and I know that was kind of a surprise for the people living in San Salvador, because, yeah, that was the first time they'd really seen the war firsthand. How old were you then? Or what like range Juliana was

Acreonte: 3:44

about 14 years old. It was in 1989 okay, they call it the offensive style topic, something like up to here. That's it. So what happened is, you know, San Salvador, there are many, like small rivers that go everywhere in this city. So those guys, they, they went inside of the city through these small rivers so no one could see them, because everyone would be paying attention on the roads. Yeah. So then yeah, they decided to start shooting at whatever they could. So it was, it was really bad. I used to live close to the National University, the University of El Salvador and many of these guys, because of the ties that the university had with the left wing. We're talking about communists here that wanted to take over. You know, it was a proxy war, really, between two superpowers. So, but anyway, so

Mike Peterson: 4:48

I think at that time, there was a sense the rebels felt, if they came into the city, that the people would rise up and join them. And that didn't really happen.

Acreonte: 4:55

No, it didn't happen. We were all scared, if you know, I mean, just hiding, like, oh my god, what is all. This. Then you had helicopters flying everywhere and shooting, and you could hear bombs. And it was, it was big. Then soldiers on the streets. And I used to live close to a park, so this green area was full of soldiers that will stay there, 24/7, with big weapons, right? And, yeah, shooting for many, many days. But, you know, I was a teenager, so I wanted to go out and I wanted to do skateboarding, because I was already skateboarder So, and I loved it, so I would just go, like, okay, it's daytime. It's fine, because we had, I think it's called martial law, like from 6pm you shouldn't go out of the house, because why would you be doing during war, you know, outside? So, yeah, it was, it was hard that time. Yeah, those days were scary, yeah,

Mike Peterson: 5:58

and were you already studying programming during that that time. No one that kind of come about for you.

Acreonte: 6:05

No, not really. That was in the 90s, okay, the 90s.

Mike Peterson: 6:10

And so the war, the war ended. There was the the peace agreements, I think. And was it 9390

Acreonte: 6:17

something like that? Early 90s. Early 90s, definitely. Yeah. So people felt like, okay, life is good. Now there is no war. Now those guys are not going to do any crazy things. There is no we are going to have electricity all the time, which is not the case, unfortunately, but it is much better than before, definitely. But then a Yeah, I started learning at university some programming languages and having contact with computers. For the first time. I was like, oh my god, I love this. I love technology, and I want to do this for the rest of my life.

Mike Peterson: 6:56

Hey guys, just a brief interruption. We'll get back to the exciting show here, but I just want to really ask a favor that you guys could make sure that you're subscribed if you're watching this on YouTube, if you are listening to this on a podcast, please take the take a second and review this. You know. You don't even have to write a lengthy review or anything at all. Just click the number of stars that you want to give us. It really helps us in the algorithms to make sure people are finding out about what's happening here. All right, back to the show.

Acreonte: 7:25

So yeah, that's how he started into programming in the late 90s, I was already developing websites, okay? And it was I could charge any amount of money I wanted to, because there were not many Salvadorians doing that.

Mike Peterson: 7:43

I bet no, I remember. I remember, even in the US at that time, like to get somebody to do a simple website for you was extremely expensive,

Acreonte: 7:51

that's right. So, yeah, I will charge some really good amount of money for small websites, just information, if you know what I mean. So back

Mike Peterson: 8:02

and did you go to like a bilingual school? Is that where you learned English?

Acreonte: 8:07

No, no, actually not. When I started getting deeper into programming, I noticed that I will get confused with some of the ways that I had to write the code, and I would be like, I don't understand this. There were things like conditionals, like, if this, do that, else, do something else, and I will be like, I I understand the logic, but I don't understand what it means. So I it would be better for me to understand the meaning of these loops. And what is this keyword doing here. Why are they in English? Why I can write some things in Spanish, but the key words from this specific programming language is in English, and I don't even know what it means. So yes, I had the opportunity in the early 2000s to go to London. The idea was to be there for six months, and is

Mike Peterson: 9:02

that because you wanted to improve your English? Was

Acreonte: 9:05

that that was actually, in fact, I went to a wedding in Spain. That was the main idea. I will go to a wedding in Spain. I will travel around for a couple of months, then we'll come back to El Salvador. But then, when I was in Spain, it is because I am my aunt is the sister of my mother. She went to the UK when she was very young, and she married a Spaniard, and then they settled in London. So the wedding was related to, I mean, someone related to this guy to my uncle. So when they saw me, they were like, Oh, don't you want to come to England? Come to London for a few months? You know, learn some English. Yeah. Why not? So, yes, that's how I ended up in London. And my idea,

Mike Peterson: 9:56

can I want to go back to the programming part? Because this is a question. Person I've always had because I've I've heard, even with the Kuba plus stuff, them saying like that, the people need to know English. I know nothing about coding. I am a very non technical person, but it's my understanding that you need to know English. Is this true even for like Chinese programmers or North Korean programmers or people like, do you is it have to be in English? Or is it just maybe, in the Western world, if you're working in program and you need to know

Acreonte: 10:29

English, actually, yes, is, is it has to be for everyone, even in the Western world, right? Even if you have European people that speak different languages when they create their own programming languages, they do it in

Mike Peterson: 10:44

English. The French must really hate that.

Acreonte: 10:48

They do. They do, but not much So choice left, if you know what I mean.

Mike Peterson: 10:52

So, yeah, so English is the standard across right, anywhere in the world, yes, right, that's right, even people that don't use, like, the the what it was even called the English alphabet, the, yeah, the Roman out, was it? Bro? Yeah, Roman, Greek. Roman, Greek, yeah. So even places that use totally different language, Cyrillic and Russian, or whatever, they're still using English. That's

Acreonte: 11:19

right, they could mix them, if you know what I mean, because in the end, everything goes down to zeros and ones. Okay, right? That's a machine language binary thing. So they could mix the languages, but English must be there for these keywords. Like, for example, the basic thing to learn is HTML, and the main tags are actually called buddy, which is, what is the body of the website head, which is, like some information related to the website itself. So that's in English. There's no way you can put cabeza instead of head, right, or a cuerpo instead of buddy. So has to be in English. Yeah,

Mike Peterson: 12:00

that's, that's really interesting. I'd always kind of wondered about that. So sorry, sorry to take you off track. But that was, that was for my own edification, to understand that it's okay. So you were in London studying English, but I'm assuming working also eventually, a

Acreonte: 12:15

yes, I'm I was studying at the beginning, I was studying General English, and when the level was good enough and I passed a test from the University of Cambridge, or I don't remember, then they were like, okay, we can accept you in a university so you can continue your studies here. So I thought, why not? I will stay a bit longer. So my mom was waiting for me already because, for her, I was going only for two months, yeah. So I was like, I don't know, maybe six months or eight months later, Mom, I'm not coming back yet. I'm going to study a

Mike Peterson: 12:53

bit more for a Salvador and mom to have their boy not come home. That's, uh, that's

Acreonte: 12:57

right, that's right. So the thing is that when I was studying English, my English teacher, she was the same age as me, somehow she started flirting, you know, I wouldn't blame her, because, you know, Latinos, so she she was European, she's European. So she was like, Okay, what do we do? You know, should we? And, you know, I, I fell for her, so I stayed we started living together with her, and we lived together for 10 years, actually. So yeah, but anyway, I'm sorry I'm missing things now. So yes, I was working in a hotel while I was finishing my studies. I studied a master's degree in digital media because I still loved technology and I wanted to study things related to technology, and digital media was like a big thing at that time, because, you know, computers were kind of newish, even though they had been in the world for decades, but not personal computers. They were kind of newish. So this was like a new world. So it was very interesting. So I finished my my degree, but when, while I was studying it, I was working in a hotel. At the beginning, I was the like concierge helping people with the luggage, while learning English and also studying. So then, when I left the hotel, like a year, year and a half later, they were already training me, so I would be a general manager from a branch. Because the hotel was expanding. They were opening branches everywhere in London, and I was already the duty manager in the hotel. So that was interesting, and I mention it because I learned many things from managing teams that has helped me what I'm doing. These days. So, yes,

Mike Peterson: 15:02

yeah, there's, there's, there's no way to really learn that other than to have that experience of having people under you of you know, realizing that their problems become your problems. You know, if they're in a fight with their wife, then that bleeds in the you know you're dealing with all those things, the drama between workers, and how you navigate that, and how you keep your team cohesive, and, yeah, and all moving in the same direction,

Acreonte: 15:29

that's right. And also, you know, I learned how different, but now this is with the time right, how definite it is to lead teams from the UK or from Europe, comparing two teams from El Salvador. But that's something

Mike Peterson: 15:45

else. No, El Salvador is very top down, very where UK is more of a flat structure.

Acreonte: 15:51

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So back because it was the first time that I was leading a team, by the way. And I remember this because you mentioned something, it is that, because it was the first time, as I said, I will be very strong with my people. Like, okay, guys go and do this. Very bossy, right? Because I didn't have experience, I didn't know how to so for me, it's like, okay, I have power now. I can do what I want, and I can ask them to do what I want in the way I want it. But then I was learning from my managers, my line managers, that was not the way. And they were not telling me, Hey, don't do it that way. They were telling me with that example, yeah, right, showing me with that example. Like, okay, can you help me with this? Can we do this? And I would be like, Oh, that's a nice manager, and he's treating me nicely. So I should be like that with my with my people. You know, in the end, we are together on this and we have to work together to finish this goal. So, yes, anyway, so exactly when I finished the degree, I thought, Okay, now they are training me to give me my own my hotel to manage, right? But I had this degree in things related to technology. I love technology. I had developed some tools for the for the hotel, tools, small tools like software, pieces of software to help us with the with things related to running the hotel. So I thought, no, no, I have to do something about it. So I started looking for a job. And then I started working. I found a job in like an advertising agency. So we were doing websites for big brands like L'Oreal pan 10, head and shoulders, Alpha Romeo, UNICEF, really nice for the whole of Europe. So it was very interesting, for example, how languages because, because it was for the whole of Europe, you will create or design the website in English. And English is so short, you know, the sentences, they just got to the point while the translation in Spanish, we had to do something to the design, because it will always break it. Because in Spanish, you know, we add souls, and we add this and that, and like, the sentences end up being very, very long. So that was interesting from my point of view. But yep, that's how I started working in this field, related to what I what I loved, right? Technology. Then I continued growing. Then I was offered that job in gaming company. Gaming, by the way, is related to video games, but in the UK is more related to casinos, right? So I learned a lot about how casino games work, because I will develop them from scratch, like Roulettes and Blackjacks, but for many years, I was working in the bingo team, right? So we will develop bingo games, but then at the same time, there will be, like, small games that will be like, Okay, try your luck. Choose one of these options, but it was already programmed to whatever option you will choose, you will always get what the computer or the program had decided to give you. And some people are like, Okay, I hope this. I will wait three seconds, because if I wait, this is or is my lucky day, or I'm wearing pink today, whatever, you know, so I can do it today like this and this, it doesn't matter. I mean, the computer has already chosen for you,

Mike Peterson: 19:42

and you know how many times you want them to win? So they have that dopamine hit and they want to keep doing it, but overall, they're losing.

Acreonte: 19:50

That's correct, and because of regulations, also, you need to give back certain amount of the money that comes to the economy. Money, right? So you have to, okay, I have been given $100 let's say so I need to give back, I don't know, $70 so there will be a winner that will win maybe $50 and another one $20 and then the rest will get nothing, or maybe could be divided, but the gratification will be more visual and like audio, like, oh my god, one cent. But like, with explosions inside, you are a winner, and people are like, Oh my god, I won one cent, and they spent 10 cents, right? But that's, that's the way it is. And by the way, I associate this very much with the shit coins Casino.

Mike Peterson: 20:47

I was just thinking that violation. They basically watched the how they sucked money out of people, and they, yeah, they give them that same thing. They get these ones that 10x and they think that, you know, that they're gonna get lucky again on the next one. And it is, you know, it they've lost all their Bitcoin.

Acreonte: 21:08

That's right, it is, it is related. I mean, anyway, that's something else. But so, yes, I used to work as a

Mike Peterson: 21:17

video games developer. Was that? Were you back in El Salvador at that time,

Acreonte: 21:21

you were in the UK, yes, yes, I was working for, like, big gaming studios, and it was cutting edge technology at that time, in the 2020, 10, For example, I remember we had, we were broadcasting Live, a live, a person that will be live, like with the roulette right spinning the roulette, but then the roulette that will be shown to the players will be digital. Okay? So we will develop it, add the video, and the video had to match with the with what we will show. And it was nice. It was very interesting, because at that time that was like, Wow, this technology is fantastic. It was. It was not like now that you have live streaming and, yeah, you know, broadcasting all sorts of things, but yeah, it was. It was very interesting. Very interesting.

Mike Peterson: 22:21

So then, what brought you back to El Salvador? Hmm,

Acreonte: 22:29

good question. So you remember that I mentioned my ex girlfriend? Yes. So we were together for 10 years, then we split up. Then, yeah, those kind of reasons, I was like, no, no, I need a break. I need to go to El Salvador. I will go there for for about a year, just to relax. And I did it. Came back and I did nothing, just staying at home, which was really, really boring. Seriously, when people think like, Okay, I want to get retired, don't it is? It is really boring. You need to do something. So at that time, I was staying with my mom, so I was like, Mom, the walls are not really nice. I'm going to paint them. So I started painting the walls. Then I don't like this, and so I was trying to do something, but at the same time, like not doing much, not thinking, not, you know, forgetting about all the things that had happened to me back in England, right? Nothing, but just, you know? And so then, that's why I came back. But then I went back to England, and all my friends were like, oh, nice to have you back. Let's go for a drink and this and that. So I was going out very often, and I didn't have time to actually look for a job. And London is so expensive, then I realized, oh my god, I'm running out of money. Because, you know, when I came back from England, in England, I was earning good money, because I was a team leader. I was leading a team of developers, and, you know, I was getting a really good salary, different economies, you know, so I could, I had saved money. So the thing is that I, the the year that I stayed here, I was just spending money all the time, just spending a lot of money. Because for me, was like, Okay, I go out in London, and I spend, I don't know, $80 a night. That's okay, so I can do the same in El Salvador, but that's too much. I mean, I'm spending too much. I don't even know what to do with the money, you know, because, yeah, the economies, as I said before. So the thing is that when I was back in England for those few months, I realized, okay, I need to have an income here if I want to stay longer, otherwise, I won't survive if it's too expensive. And all my friends are going out all the time, and they they had not noticed that I don't have an income. So I'll go back to El Salvador. So I came back and. I started working in a company as there is a concept in programming where a manager becomes someone that is a facilitator. So a managing, a manager usually tells you do this, this and that a facilitator helps you with your tasks, right? Do you have an impediment? Are you impeded? Is the task okay? Or how? What can I do so you can finish it one time, or, you know, it's different. So that's what I was doing in this company was nice. Then this when, when the El Salvadorian culture hit. Because, for example, in England, every time I had moved jobs is because I wanted to, it's because I was offered something different. You know, like you grow really fast from junior, you start learning so many things. But then a couple of years later, another company tells you, okay, you want to be, you know, not senior but, like, not junior developer, just a developer, and we will pay you more. And so you moved, and then you start learning more, because they use different tools, different way of doing things. So you learn a lot when moving companies in England, in El Salvador is not the usual thing in here. You start in a company and you stay there forever until you die. That's what my parents have done in grandparents and so on and so forth. So the usual thing here is just to stay in one company forever,

Mike Peterson: 26:39

and not even from what I've seen a lot of times, the goal isn't even really to move up, it's just to keep your job. And so you have people, instead of thinking about, like, innovating and growing and moving up, they're afraid to do stuff, because they're like, Well, what if I do something wrong? I might lose my job. And so you have this very risk adverse culture. I think that's changing a lot in the last few years, but historically, that's how it

Acreonte: 27:05

is. It is the case. Yes, yes, because remember, we, we came from war, civil war, and then so there were no many job opportunities. So you will value your job, like, Okay, I'm here and I want to keep my job. Maybe those things are related. I guess that's why

Mike Peterson: 27:24

people definitely that was the fear. There was like, and I feel like in the US, the like, driving thing is people want to move up, but yeah, and they're not that afraid of losing their jobs. But here, that was the fear in everything. And so you see it even sometimes, like people won't make a decision on something if you ask your you know, waiter, hey, can you do this instead of that? Oh, I need to check with my boss. They're always afraid of like, doing something that's gonna get them in trouble.

Acreonte: 27:52

That's right, that's right. We we're like that. The culture here is like that, and because of the background, I guess is going to change. I guess eventually

Mike Peterson: 28:00

I feel like it's already changed. I feel like even in the last few years, I've seen like a significant change, yeah, especially with the younger generation, that

Acreonte: 28:08

people want to grow like they want to learn more. Yeah, they want to do more

Mike Peterson: 28:12

well. And I think because jobs are a lot more plentiful now, so people aren't as scared of losing their job, because they're like, Well, if I lose my job there, I know I can get a job over here. And so I think that creates more risk taking. And I just think the younger generation has a different vision. They're more hopeful where it used to be. Everybody lived in fear. Now, people are like, hey, tomorrow's going to be better than today. Next year is going to be better than this year. And so there's this sense of hope.

Acreonte: 28:38

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely agree with you. I can also feel it. So, yeah, so what I was telling you I was working for this company, and then I forgot the word, because there is a specific word that describes when one of the owners wanted his brother to take over. So instead of because I was like, the big boss, yeah, in that company, think of nepotism. Nepotism, yes. So I was like, Oh, my God, okay, I cannot do anything about it. Yeah, they are the owners, and this boy is going to replace me. That's fine. I'm leaving right then also going to interviews and not getting jobs. That was new for me, because in England, seriously, they will check your your CV. They will speak with you. They will see, okay, you are a good match. You already know this, this and that we won't spend time. We will not. I mean, you know they, they don't, they do what they have to do. They know that while in here, it takes a bit longer the process and they check and they need to find the perfect match, which is almost impossible, right? So if you're a good match, we will give you the opportunity and do your best and like that. But yep. So then I worked for a couple. Of companies here related to technology. But then there was a time after, well, during the pandemic, right that I actually just right before the pandemic, I started getting interested into Bitcoin, which is actually what we are going to talk about now. So I got interested. And I was like, How can I do that? Where can I buy some bitcoin? I want to get some bitcoin. I really like this, this thing, the whole thing that is happening with so

Mike Peterson: 30:30

did you at that time? Did you hear what was happening here in El zonte? Had you heard

Acreonte: 30:36

just a few things I had seen, like, no documentary, but,

Mike Peterson: 30:42

but Forbes had done something. I don't know if you saw that, but Forbes did a story on

Acreonte: 30:47

maybe, maybe that was the one that I dread. And then I was like, okay, okay, so now I know how to get some bitcoin. I need to go down there to Horizonte. So I remember, during the pandemic, but at the very beginning, I think it was 2021 because in 2020 I was frustrated, because for me, okay, the easiest thing to do is just to go to an exchange and then buy some something there. But I used to use a VPN, so when I wanted to open my account automatically, it said, like, Okay, you are in Germany. What's your address in Germany? I'm like, No, I'm not in Germany. I mean, they didn't let me change that, and it was a big mess. So I was frustrated for a couple of months from November, I remember 2020 January, 2020, still writing to them, you know, emails and telling them, okay, please, can you do something about it? I'm not in Germany. You know, I know nothing about Germany. So I'm in El Salvador. I can give you all my details. I didn't know about the importance of KYC. I didn't care about KYC. I was give you all my full name. No,

Mike Peterson: 31:58

no, it was. It was almost impossible for Salvadorans to buy bitcoin, because most exchanges, like wouldn't allow them, or if they did their bank account in here in El Salvador would freeze their account as soon as they tried to buy any Yeah,

Acreonte: 32:10

that's right. So for me, it was really frustrating, yeah, then when I heard about an ATM that was somewhere here, I don't remember, to be honest, because those days had a big those days, 2021 I think it was the pan the pandemic, right?

Mike Peterson: 32:23

Well, no, there was. So we had the first ATM in the country here, here in El zonte, which is funny, because it's this tiny town. And, yeah, we worked with Athena to bring that, yeah, to bring that in. There was, I kind of was wondering if I was wondering if I was going to get in trouble for it, because we, you know, there was no real clear regulation at that time, we kind of just brought it in and started operating it right.

Acreonte: 32:49

So I came looking for that ATM, and I didn't know, I didn't understand, because it said there that I needed a wallet to download a wallet. And I was like, Look, what do you mean a wallet. I just so someone I don't remember really well, because, as I said, I think it was 2020 I don't remember, to be honest, 2021 and they were trying to help me. But I was scared. I was like, no, no, no. I don't know these guys. Maybe they won my $20 because for me, you know, $20 I want to try with so I was really scared, and I'm like, no, no, I'm leaving. I'm leaving. And I learned it there. Download this wallet, blah, blah, blah. I think Athena will promote some wallets.

Mike Peterson: 33:33

I can't remember, but maybe, yeah, maybe they recommended a couple different

Acreonte: 33:36

I think they will no promote, sorry, but recommend. Recommend, yeah, I think the Bitcoin beach wallet didn't exist or

Mike Peterson: 33:45

being developed. It depends on what time you're at, but yeah, that was right around that time when we started rolling it out. So, right, right,

Acreonte: 33:54

right. Well, the thing is that I got frustrated also, because, first of all, I was scared I was not allowed to live in the city because of the, you know, the pandemic, so and so forth. So I was like, No, I'm going to do it. I have to. So I came, and 15 minutes later I went back to San Salvador, like, okay, now I will try another day. Yeah, I will see what this wallet, what it means. So I downloaded a wallet, and then I was reading from friends on Facebook, oh, Bitcoin is bad for the environment and all those things that don't make sense. But anyway, and you should try this one instead. This is the new Bitcoin. So I made the mistake of starting with shit coin, because it was a new Bitcoin, right? And, yeah, it was like, this is interesting. And it was actually the bull market starting so. And I was like, Well, I still want Bitcoin, so that wallet allowed me to get some shit coins. And. Bitcoin. So I don't remember if it was self custodial. Maybe not shit coins, you know, anyway, so that's how I started. Then at the same time, I was studying a diploma in cryptography, which was like, okay, cryptography, cryptocurrencies, oh, my God, this is amazing. I will go all in. So obviously, in the end, I lost a lot of money for shit coining. It went every bad. I also tried trading. And because I was, I'm a software developer, I developed my own bots. So I had a bot, Telegram bot, by the way, that will check on 80 different shit coins, how they will behave. And it will detect, detect, sorry, big jumps, like going up or down within a short period of time. And it will be like, Okay, this is a pump. There is a dump coming. So I will bet casino style, you know, trading this, I will bet that this is coming down. Obviously, I lost a lot of money because trading is no it's not good, it's a casino. We all know that, right, but I had to learn the hard way. I lost, yeah, few hundreds of dollars.

Mike Peterson: 36:24

It's better to learn in the beginning with a small amount, then get sucked into that later when you have a large amount of capital.

Acreonte: 36:33

As a Salvadorian, trust me that a few hundreds of dollars is a lot of money. Including, you know, I was so unlucky that I saw this other new Bitcoin called Terra Luna. And I was like, Okay, I'm going to $100.02 hundreds of dollars. And suddenly that thing came to zero. You know, the story is terrible. So that was terrible, but I had to learn the hard way. Yeah, right. So, yeah, that time, I think it was 2023 that I was like, Okay, this is nice. I like my bot because it works most of the time. I'm terrible at this, because everyone is in the end. I mean, they can believe that, oh yeah, because the stars are aligned and but I already knew from my background, from developing casino games, that the stars have nothing to do. Your Luck has nothing to do. Your lucky shirt or whatever, nothing to do. So yeah. Then I was like, Okay, shall I go back to the UK, shall I go to the US? Yeah, sounds interesting. I can do that. Yeah, it's in my list, list of things to do. I haven't done these kind of things. I haven't jumped from a parachute, or I haven't done skydiving, or, hmm, it's got to live in the US. Also, I had applied for a job, and I got the job offer, but some really weird things were happening at that time, because I knew that I wanted a change in my life. I was a professor at a couple of universities. I was teaching game development, game design, but at the same time that was not for me, because I love teaching, I love sharing my knowledge. But I wanted to do stuff, right? So I was thinking, okay, Texas, there is a big thing related to technology there, and this is what I wanted to go to. So, London, they already know me. They I mean, I know the companies, El Salvador, interesting things are happening here, but I still don't know what is happening. Is a bit confusing everything. But yeah, so then actually something happened before, when I was shit coining, I remember 2021, Jack Mahlers went on stage at the Bitcoin Miami conference, yeah, something like that. So, and he mentioned that he was wearing a El Salvadorian t shirt. And I was like, is that El Salvador? Okay, that's interesting. And now I want to show you this. And he showed the video of President Bucha le. I started crying. I was like, Oh my God, that's my president. That's my country being mentioned what? And he mentioned what. He said that Bitcoin will be legal tender. I had a few. I had some, you know, Satoshis and also shit coins. But I was so excited, like, oh my god, this is absolutely amazing. So for me, was that was that was amazing. And again, I cried, right? Because I was so emotional of looking at the president from my country, a country that everyone mentioned. Everyone at that time, right? Everyone will mention only the bad things, bad news. That was not bad news. So for me, it was like, wow, this is amazing. My president, wow, so. But anyway, going back to what I was telling you, 2023 at the beginning, I was like, Okay, I will do Uber driving while I decide what to do, or finding a job here or moving there, or this is okay, because I'm not committed to any job that I have to quit later on, or No, I'm okay. So I will do Uber driving. It's really relaxing. So I do nothing more than listen to the music that I like with AC on speaking to people. Usually people are very nice. So this is cool. So I remember one day it happened that I ended up somehow, because I'm in San Salvador, right? Yeah. So I went to santatecla to drop someone then I went to Zaragoza to drop someone else. And then the application said, from El Salvador to El Salvador. Okay, so I took it, and then I followed the ways the map, you know, like, Okay, I will go wherever it takes me. So it doesn't matter. I ended up in Tunku. I was like, Oh, my God, I'm in El tunko. Well, I love el tunko. So these two gringos jumped in, and then they said, okay, to el zonte. No, el zonte. Okay, nice. And then I told them, oh, Bitcoin Beach, yes, yes. They said, Have you got anything to do with Bitcoin? And then the woman said, we have everything to do with Bitcoin. Okay, that's interesting. So I started talking about shit coining, right? And then she went, like, shit coins Oh no. Don't talk to me about that, like this and that. And I was like, Oh my God, she's a Maxi, the evil Maxis that all the influences mention all the time, like they are evil people. They want to eat you alive, and don't even mention that you love this beautiful world of shit coining, right? That's what they tell you. You know, these influencers, crypto influencers, right? So I was scared like, oh my god, I better keep my mouth shut. So that was the first time that I met a Maxi. A few days later, in another trip, I went to the airport to drop someone, then these other two people jumped in, and I'm like, Okay, so the guy had a name, like a French name, and, yeah, they looked gringos. You know, gringos you know, gringo for us is everyone who is not Salvadorian. They can be from any country. So the thing is that these two gringos jumped in. I started talking to them. I was wearing an FTX hat, so, yeah, they just looked at each other like, so FTX and I'm like, yeah, yeah. Do you know about creep? And now it's like, Bitcoin, because I knew that if they will be Maxis, they will tell me often they will be because they are evil. And they, yeah, they don't like humans. They whatever, you know, all the bad things that. So, yeah, I like Bitcoin. I love Bitcoin. Oh, which wallet do you use? I'm like, I won't tell them that I use the binance, Chivo. Oh, no, yeah, you should try something else, this and that. So, to make the story short, it was actually nor, okay, Bitcoin from blink wallet. Yeah, and it was amazing because I drove them from the airport to their house, and we we had a really nice conversation. She was with the boyfriend, now, husband, he was so cool. And I asked him, Where are you guys from? It was like, I'm from Paris and I'm from Brazil. I remember she said, What are you doing here? Where are you? Are you visiting somewhere? Are you going to El zonte or something? No, we live here. I was surprised. I'm like, What do you mean? You live here? Yeah, we moved to El Salvador. Why? Why would you leave Rio Paris? You know why? Because here is better. How come I was so surprised, you know, I have for me, there was a new thing that having people from other countries saying El Salvador is better than I want to live there. Yeah? So, okay, that was interesting, the conversation we had. Then a few days later, there was this guy who was waiting for me to pick him up. I was doing Uber again, close to the El Salvador's hospital, hospital El Salvador, right in San Salvador. So when he jumped in, I. I saw that he was wearing a hat that I recognized. I think it was, I think it was Bucha 2024, something like that. And now I told him I have seen that cut before. Impossible. He said, No, yes, it is. I haven't seen it. Said, No, that is only true. My boss has one and this is the other one, and say, Who's your boss, Max? I'm like, oh, you know Max. And then we started talking about Bitcoin, that I knew that I had to say Bitcoin, because otherwise, you know another max that is going to kill me. And so, yeah, we started talking. I was driving him to, I think he was going to his house, yes, to pick up and USB key, because he wanted to print some leaflets. So I drove him. And on the way, we started talking about Bitcoin, and he asked me if I could speak English. And I said, Yeah, with my funny accent, but I do. I just I speak some English. And he said, do you know about technology? I'm like, I know something about programming. I love it. And he said, No way, no way. He said, Okay, please apply to this program called Cubo plus, right? And I was like, yeah, yeah, sure, sure. I will apply. But in my head, I was still thinking, Okay, should I go back to Texas? Should I go to Texas? Should I go back to the UK? Should like? What should I do? I don't know. So when I dropped him, he said, Can you wait for me? So okay, I waited for him. He went for the USB key, for the USB drive. I took him to a place to print out these leaflets. We went to a university to drop them to the director of the university that was for the students of that university, to invite them to the Cubo Plus program. And he gave me one, one leaflet. He said, Okay, keep it, scan the QR code and apply. So that night, I was like, was this? Was this Mario? Mario? Okay, that was Mario, Mario, and I told him that I had met Noor, and he was jealous, like, Did you meet no her? I cannot believe it. Yeah, and someone else that I don't know who she is, but it was a gringa who wanted to kill me because, because I mentioned shit coins. So, yeah, I applied. I understand maybe the numbers are wrong, but I understand that about 150 something people applied from them. They were selected, about 55 people, I think because, you know, they were prerequisites, like English, so they will have, like an English interview, first an interview in English, then a technical test to see if you could program how good you were. Because of that, that was like a filter. And then we were about 55 people who started the program itself, okay? And yeah, I was like, Okay, I'm not, I'm not going to anywhere. I'm staying in El Salvador. This looks very, very interesting. The first lecture was by some Italian guy. I forgot his name. He was amazing, really energetic. You know, Italian like, Okay, guys, look. This is amazing. But the cipher punk style done and blah, blah. So I was so excited, and suddenly I saw that Giacomo, Zuko sent a message to the group that were watching this, this video. And I was like, Oh, my God, Giacomo. I had already read about him, because after I met nor Noor told me, okay, look, these are the things that you have to do, open a Twitter account, follow this and that, and download a proper wallet. Blink is good, obviously. So I follow her instructions. Like, okay, that sounds interesting, right? I will do that. So I was already following Giacomo. So for me to see him like he has said hello to these Cuba, plus students. Oh, my God, Giacomo is here. What I didn't know is that he will be the lecture from the second lecture and for the rest of the, almost the rest of the program. So that was very interesting, very exciting. They have a very interesting way of teaching, like, very pedagogical, if you know what I mean, like every week we will have small tests about what we had seen the previous week. So it will be kind of gamification. I don't know if you're familiar with the term, like, with in a fun way. Sorry, this is like in the end of the Cuba, plus virtual lessons, the few people that passed because, you know, there were filters, natural filters. Filters, because some people were not really interested. There were other filters, like the tests some people will fail, so they would be like, no, no. This is not for me. And in the end, only about 21 as far as I can remember, by coincidence, by the way, this is what I heard, that by coincidence, only 21 of us passed to the following stage, with which was not like virtual, but like in person, in person. So that was the first lecture from these guys. Your first first lecture, that's correct, in person? Yes. So he came to El Salvador to give the lecture. That's our fairy godmother, Stacy. She's amazing. And the work that she's doing is, is absolutely amazing. So those are my

Mike Peterson: 50:46

that was the first contingent of of Kubo, plus this was the first band after it then winnowed down to 21 that's correct. Yeah, yeah. So

Acreonte: 50:56

from that, then, I think it was a week later, or something like that, that they told us, okay, everyone living in edea, any other city, come to San Salvador. If you live in San Salvador, leave your house and come to San Benito. So all the 21 of us were put in a couple of hotels. Okay, you guys are going to stay here, even if you are from San Salvador, right? There were people from San Miguel, Santa, Ana, different places in El Salvador. So all of us were together there.

Mike Peterson: 51:33

But in that first group, it was all Salvadorans, right? I know now they've opened it up and they have people from around the world

Acreonte: 51:38

participating, yeah, yeah, it was only Salvadoran. People from everywhere in El Salvador, and most of them very, very young in their early 20s. Couple of guys were even teenagers, like, not even 18 years old. Like, couple of guys were 17 years old, you know. And I was with another guy, with my friend, Ricardo. He's, he's great, by the way, he's amazing, in amazing Bitcoin, a solid Bitcoin. So we are almost the same age, because we're the old guys. And, yeah, yeah, yeah. Then a couple of guys that were in their 30s, then the rest of the guys were in their early 20s, lots of children, but very smart. In fact, there is something that I have always mentioned, but I hope it doesn't sound rude, because you know, people who love programming, we have this kind of level of autism. So I will say, Oh, my God. The smell of autism in this room is so big. Because seriously, those guys, you could tell that they would be, like, looking at the teachers, like, yeah, and doing things like that, and like, not behaving in the usual way, if you know what I mean. But this is how we are. I'm an IT person, and obviously, right. So actually, with him, with Jimmy song, this is what I noticed that, you know, the amount of focusing. Let's go, yeah, right. But it's amazing how actually here there were only 12 of us. So the 21 we were for a couple of weeks, as far as I can remember, in San Benito, and we from very early in the morning, we will wake up and go to have the lecture. We had lectures every day. Would there would be like, four lectures, or something like that, different things related to Bitcoin mining, Lightning Network, how the Bitcoin software is installed, how to, oh, my God, so many, many things that the information was like so much, you know, and but we will have lunch with the lecturers. We will have dinner with the lecturers, and we will be all the time just talking about Bitcoin, learning about Bitcoin. It was amazing. It was really, really amazing. And then the last the 12 people who managed to survive all that we came to El zonte. Let me think, actually it was the 21 of us who came down to El zonte, and we booked a couple of hotels. The whole place was full of students from Cuba plus, right? And then, know the place for this teachers. Many people came from Europe, the guys from Plan B network, they came down to El zonte. So you have those two guys from Plan B network, by the way, that's Roxy and angelx. They were some of our teachers. And that's Max also, and that's the hat that I mentioned that Mario was wearing.

Mike Peterson: 54:45

Okay, yeah, right. So,

Acreonte: 54:49

yeah, it was an amazing experience having these guys and living with them and learning from them. And the thing is that in the end, because it was a. Boot camp. The very last day, it was like a competition. Let's say, so my team won the competition. Let's say because we developed a video game that you could pay using Bitcoin, and the winner will get the reward. I mean, the winnings in Bitcoin also. So it was nice. It was hard because these children were very stubborn. And I was like, Guys, please, let's be organized. No, no, let me do it, and they will do the things that would be like. But anyway, it was fun. It was really, really good. So in the end, after that, it was only 12 of us who stayed for another week. Okay, at the beginning, we stayed with Jimmy song, and we learned, Wow, so many things from from him, related to Bitcoin, the core of it, the software itself, how everything works, how? Why? Lightning Network, which we learned later on, is Bitcoin. Even though some people say, No, it's not Bitcoin, it is because what we learned from Jimmy song is like every single thing that happened to a transaction until it's broadcasted and added to a block and added to the blockchain so on and so forth. But then later on, after the Jimmy song lectures, it was with Lisa nifty.

Unknown: 56:29

So

Acreonte: 56:32

yes, Lisa taught us about Lightning Network, how everything worked. So then we learned, okay, so now it makes sense that here, what is happening is everything is exactly the same as in Bitcoin on chain, that you have a transaction and it's been signed by the two parties or three or the amount that is necessary, and then it stops at being broadcasted. So it's not being broadcasted. That's the difference, but in the end, is Bitcoin. So it was very interesting, what we learned from from her and and that was it for most of us, that was it for the 12 of us. That was an amazing experience, and that's it. It's over. However, five of us were selected to continue our studies in via radio in Italy. And that's, that's us in Italy that said, I don't know if

Mike Peterson: 57:30

mario is going to be happy with taking that picture of him. That's, that's like when I post something, my wife's like, did you even look at the picture? Look how bad I look in this before you post it. But we're boys, you

Acreonte: 57:41

know, we don't do much. A girl like my friend Naomi, she might not be happy. She would be like, Oh my god, I'm not smiling, or whatever. You know, she will say something. But you know us, we are okay. So that's us in via radio a so we have more things that happened in via radio. We were, we continued our studies. I think it was about two more weeks, okay, one week. And in the end, there was a conference called Build, the build builders.

Mike Peterson: 58:15

And so question did as the Kubo Plus program, do you guys have to pay for all this? Is it scholarship? How does, how does that work? It was traveling all over and doing all these big name teachers coming in. So it's if it was something you had to pay for, it would be extremely expensive, I'm assuming. So how does how that work

Acreonte: 58:37

for us? For Salvadorians, is a scholarship. Okay, so we didn't pay and that first cohort, so the first Cubo plus generation, we were very lucky, because, as I mentioned before, every week there will be a test, a short example, but it will be with gamification, so with funny things coming in the questions there and then you will select the question. And the one who will select the right question in the shortest period of time will learn more points. And after the whole questionnaire, the one with the highest points will get $15 in Satoshis right the second place,$12 the third place, $10 from the seventh, sorry, from the fourth to the 10th, $7 so that will make a study. Like, I want to get this son, I want to, you know. So that was, that was good from my point of view. So we always wanted to be at the top right. And, yeah, yeah. So it was not only a scholarship, but we will also get some SATs. For me, it was fantastic. And then we will get, obviously, everything, paid, food, accommodation, transportation. So it was great, to be honest. It wasn't Yeah, and amazing. Experience that for us Salvadorans is, you know, once in a lifetime, it's not like every day, someone is like, Oh, come on, and I will invite you to have dinner in via radio Italy, yeah. So, yeah, yeah. That was good. We loved that. And I guess this is what they chose. Also, that was one of the the things that help them decide who will continue. Yeah, they will notice who will be the ones giving their best, because we wanted to to give our best right to finish first, because of the Satoshis and because we were learning a lot. So yeah, yeah. We went there for a couple of weeks. Then we went to Lugano, Switzerland, and but there it was, only for the conference, Plan B forum, okay, yeah, I think I saw you there, by the way. Yeah, that was couple of years ago the plan B forum. And I

Mike Peterson: 1:01:00

remember being surprised at that that conference, how focused everybody was on what was happening in El Salvador. You think you're in Switzerland, the banking capital of the world. You had regulators and people from banks and all these people, but half the conversations were all around what was happening in El Salvador. And had like, everybody was so fascinated and and trying, feeling like, Oh, we're falling behind. We need to catch up. And so it was crazy seeing El Salvador be the center of the world there.

Acreonte: 1:01:30

It was an amazing experience, really, for me, for example, because sometimes you will be like, Okay, I'm in Europe. I'm this, but you don't think there are things that you don't realize, right? But then suddenly you see a massive painting of President Bucha, paso a paso, and you're like, Oh, my God, that's President Bucha. That's him. What is he doing here in Lugano, Switzerland, you know, it's El Salvador. That's the flag, and that's, that's amazing. So the feeling is amazing that something positive is representing your country when everything has been so negative, right? So it was good. It was amazing. An amazing experience, really, to be there in Lugano, then, yeah, for this. For most of the guys, it was the first time that they were traveling. One of them turned 18 while he was in Italy. So can you imagine how young he was? And he's actually he's very good. He's very smart. You know, you could have conversations about anything history, mathematics or physics, or whatever subject. And he's so smart, very, very good. I think he works for SATs back now, okay, so many of us got jobs in Zebedee SATs back, block stream and different companies. Naomi, by the way, she was working for the Aqua wallet. And, yeah, yeah. So very, very good, nice experience, by the way. So what happened to me after that? I'm sorry that I'm me, me, me, but yeah. So when we came back from Europe after that trip, which was amazing, not the best picture, by the way, I concealed

Mike Peterson: 1:03:17

No, but that's yeah, I remember that drone show, yeah, for those of you who are just listening, we're playing some pictures here for the YouTube, and they had an amazing drone show. That's the first time I'd seen a drone show like that, of that quality. And they put on an amazing Yes,

Acreonte: 1:03:36

absolutely agree, yeah. So when I came back, you know, we were like, Okay, we already have all this, our all our classmates getting job offers, and we haven't. We haven't been offered anything, right? We were told that maybe BitFenix or that we had to wait a bit and this and that and Okay, let's see what happens. Because, for example, one of our classmates was pupusas G I guess you have heard about him. He got a job offer at the very beginning. We were here in Asante when he was called by these guys from Plan B network. Hey, can you join us? And we were like, they're going to tell him off, because something has happened. And no, it was he got a job offer. So when we came back, we were like, Okay, now let's just wait. And then a couple of days later, I got a phone call from the president of the digital assets commission that if I could go to his offices to speak to him. So I went there, like the following day, or maybe the same day. We had a nice conversation. He needed someone with the IT background and also with knowledge in shit coining, which I had, unfortunately, right, like, you know, part of my past, terrible past, but it's the past. So yeah, we had the conversation. And he said, Okay, we need someone who knows about this and about that. And I'm like, Hmm, that's me, okay. And he said, Do you know anyone else? And I said, Yes, of course, these are the couple of guys from Cuba, plus. So we got the offer straight away, and like, a day later, or two days later, we were already there at the digital assets commission, doing things related to it, and it was like, like a startup. They didn't have internet, they didn't have computers, they so everything was like, just starting right? So we had to to set up everything. Like, okay, the specifications of the computers, the connection to Inland Revenue. I don't know how to call it, but hacienda, we call it here, like, will you pay the taxes? Like, the IRS, the IRS, yes. So we had to create a connection directly with them, lots of technical, technological things, right that they didn't know how to do. We were the experts, so we had to do it. So it was a very, very nice experience. It was hard for me as Maxi because, you know, we had to read all these applications from shit coin companies that they wanted to come over to El Salvador and have this license to operate. And okay, we need to this is good for El Salvador because we have to regulate, because this exists, right? Things exist. I mean, shit, coins exist. It's the best thing to do is to regulate them, so we make sure that they do the things as legal as possible, but as fair as possible towards our citizens, right? So if they start showing some kind of, okay, no, then we cut the license and we ask them to pay back the people who have spent money there. So it was good having this, it is actually good, from my point of view, having this framework that blocks everything that has to be blocked, so on and so forth. So then after that, after a few months, I was contacted by Plan B network, and they told me that they wanted to open offices here, and if I was interested in being the head of the Salvadorian offices as an operations manager. It was very exciting. Obviously, that was not getting paid in Fiat, but then now getting paid in Bitcoin. So

Mike Peterson: 1:07:34

plan B was paying. They paid everything in Bitcoin. Everything. Okay,

Acreonte: 1:07:37

so that was amazing. I was like, Yeah, of course, I'll take it. So I started working for them. The thing is that it was again, like starting from zero. We didn't even have offices. We didn't have anything really. And you we have big plans like growing and not only I will become the regional manager, Operations Manager, so I will be looking after the whole continent, from Canada, United States, Mexico down to Patagonia in Argentina, right? So I had to part of the things were like flying over to different countries and speaking to communities and helping them growing and becoming a node from Plan B network. So we could all help each other learning about Bitcoin, right? Because Plan B network is about Bitcoin education. They say we centralize education so it gets decentralized, something like that. So it was really, really interesting. The change to me, happened gradually, as in, from Fiat to Bitcoin. I didn't even notice, but because I was earning in Bitcoin, I couldn't spend dollars or pounds or euro, I had Bitcoin. So I will be living on a Bitcoin standard, buying everything I needed, paying in Bitcoin, because this is what I had. Yeah, right. And it was fun, and it was nice. At the beginning, it was like, Oh, my God, this it feels so good to go there and scan and that's it. You don't have to worry about change. And is it correct? Did they give me the how much? Was it a $10 note? Or was it a $5 now, they gave me too much, or they so you don't have to worry about anything, right? And it's so fast, and it's so nice and nice. I was living the whole Bitcoin life, if you know what I mean, coming down to alzhetes so often, like really, really often, because of the farmers market, because of the monthly meetups. So it was, it was fantastic, really, it was, it was great. And seriously, this of spending Bitcoin was amazing. Even in San Salvador, which is not as organized, there are places. That, yeah, but there is not like a community like that. You can gather together every now and then, yeah, you have the meetups from me, Premier Bitcoin, for example, that I used to attend on Tuesdays. And it was amazing. It was, it was a great time. But then when there was adopting Bitcoin, happening. Oh, by the way, this is something funny. When I met nor, like, couple of years ago, she asked me, Did you go to adopting Bitcoin? I was like, no, no, no, maybe you can attend this year. I was like, yeah, maybe I can attend. I would love to contact me. She said, because she was one of the organizers. I was like, yeah, yeah, of course, I want to attend as a you know, to go well, to make it short. So in the end, I attended, but I as a speaker. I gave a talk about Cuba plus and this and that. So you know how things happened, right? And that was within months. Then last year, I also gave a presentation about Plan B network and something about my experience as a casino games developer and shit coining. And it was, it was interesting from my point of view. So that was good. So I was working on preparing things related to adopting Bitcoin, because Plan B network was in charge of the main Fiesta, the main party that was in downtown San Salvador. So we had to make sure that the building was everything was set up properly in the building. So we worked for many days and nights, sorting everything out right, making sure that everything will be fine. So when I was there, I remember I received a call from my current boss, the Minister of Education, who contacted me and said, Look, I have seen your CV, and I'm interested in you being part of the of the ministry. I was like, Yeah, okay, I will speak with you another day. I'm sorry. I'm you know, I'm busy, whatever, right? But then the process started when I said, Yes, yes, of course. So he started the process. People contacted me from human resources, and they asked me questions, and I was just I continued with my tasks that I had to do for Plan B network, and at the same time, I would reply to them and do all the tests that they asked me

Mike Peterson: 1:12:38

they went did they specify? Were they specifically interested in you because of your your background in Bitcoin, or just your general IT background? Or what was the

Acreonte: 1:12:48

general IT background? Yeah, and I guess because of the masters that you know when you're a Bitcoin or you don't care about masters or degrees or anything seriously, this is something that I had forgotten about master's degree in digital media from the London Metropolitan University. Who cares? You know, that's just a piece of paper, right? When you're a bitcoiner, yeah, right. Well, that's how I felt. But for them was I, oh, my god, he studied in London this and now, whoa, so. And also, because of the background that I had been like leading teams, and I was the, I don't know if operations not director, but the operations manager from Plan B network, which I was running, the whole thing related to Plan B network, yeah, obviously, with the help from Plan B network Europe, right. But, yeah, it was. It was fun. At that time, we were so busy doing things. My boss was in El Salvador because he was also helping with the other initiative from Plan B foundation that is related to events. So those were the ones in charge of the party, the the these guys, but because we are like, we part of the same big company. So that's why we were helping. Then the plan B forum was coming. Paso a paso was also coming with the plan B Forum, which was fantastic. I was asked if I could be a speaker, unfortunately,

Mike Peterson: 1:14:25

so for people that are listening, so paso, Paso was the we had, we'd had this idea to have a Spanish only track as part of the conference, because, you know, there's been the adopting Bitcoin Conference is amazing, and they've really reached out to the Salvadoran community, but there, in fact, this last year, they got a lot more Salvadorans that came. But historically, there's been a challenge getting people to come, because now it's in English, it's not really for us. And so the idea was to have this track at the plan B conference that was Spanish speakers for the Spanish audience, and it was. Amazing. Yes, it

Acreonte: 1:15:01

was amazing. I wish I could have attended, but I couldn't. Unfortunately, well, things happened and but yeah, I mean, I was so excited about everything that will happen this year, but then eventually, at the beginning of December, I was told, okay, so you start your new job the first of or the third of January. And I just looked at my boss, okay, I was offered the job, and he was like, Okay, it's your choice. He was so upset about it, but anyway, so I couldn't do much about it, to be honest, is a very interesting thing, because the love, my love from my country, has grown so much. And to be honest, I believe that what is happening here is going to help somehow the whole world so Salvadoran students, right from the public education system. It was a good target for me to help, if you know what I mean, like, Okay, this is something. This is a big challenge. I want these children to learn as much as possible, and I want to. I'm not a teacher, or I'm not going to teach them, but I will help. That's part of my job, helping, providing tools to the different people involved. Because the ministries is massive. It's really big. There are 1.2 million students. So we're talking about more than 5000 schools, public schools, so many teachers, people working in administration that they are really, really necessary. Because how can you do all the logistics behind you know, all the thing is big? So I thought, Okay, this is not bad. This is actually good. It's a very big opportunity, very nice opportunity, I'm going to take it. So that's how i i moved jobs. And there is when something interesting happened, happened to me from my point of view. Before that, I was earning in SATs, right, and saving insights. Because, you know, that was the Bitcoin way my clothes, the things that I will wear, always with a cap, with a T shirt, blink, or whatever, you know, mempool space, or something really cool. And I will love my my T shirts, like, Yeah, this is so cool. Jeans, no shorts, because I don't know we Salvadorians from my age. We are weird. We even though the weather is fantastic and it's perfect for you, wearing shorts or Bermuda as well as we call them. But we don't. We feel shy. We're like, no, no, no, no. I'm in my 40s, late 40s, so I can, oh, no, no, I need to wear trousers, right? So, jeans So, but anyway, it would be more relaxed. I would be more myself. I would wake up when my biological clock will tell me to wake up, which was fantastic, you know, and always like, Okay, nice. Now, let's go and do some work, and I will start sending emails or checking whatever had to be checked. It was it was nice. It was good fun. Bitcoin life, if you know what I mean, like thinking about Bitcoin 24/7 and kind of working 24/7 but you wouldn't feel it, because it's something that you are passionate about now, moving jobs. So the first thing that I had to do clothes, smart suit. Okay, I have to wear smart suit. I have to. So I went with my car. My car is Kia, 2014 so he's 11 years old. I bought it brand new, but from when I came from England and Fiat mentality at that time, so I need a brand new car. Well, there you go. So I paid the money, but now I'm like, I love my car. Last year, I was like, I love my car. It takes me to places. And this is what I need, right? I don't need anything big or fancy or anything like that. Now, working there at the ministry and looking at the SUVs from the directors, I'm like, I need to change my car. I need to buy a nice and big SUV, because this is what they these guys have. So again, my mindset was becoming Fiat, and it was I had this fight that didn't happen when I started living in a Bitcoin standard. It just happened naturally. But then now I'm like, Okay, I'm earning Fiat in I didn't think that I will be earning Fiat. I will think like, okay, now I need to dress nicely. Now I need to speak nice, and now I need to degrees are extremely important for them because. Don't call you by your name, they call you by your title. So you have two like bachelors. We have ingeniero or less in Seattle, and in my case, I have a Master's, but I don't have a bachelor. So it's something weird that happened. But it's the education system in England that allows me to because of what I had studied before, they said, Okay, you can study the Masters, but I feel weird. And I'll be honest with you, I'm studying a Bachelor now, because it's kind of necessary in this world of Fiat, if you know what I mean, like you have to. I feel the pressure, and I'm like, Okay, I will, eventually, I will have a bachelor degree, and again, as a bitcoiner, that just doesn't make any sense. It's not important at all. Right. Unfortunately, I'm not living in the Bitcoin world anymore. Now I'm more like in the Fiat world. So the things that have changed also is that I don't value Fiat. When I get paid my salary, I save a bit. Okay, I'm stuck in science and like, but not as much. Understand this is something else. But I'm going to tell you later, dollars is like, Yeah, whatever. I will get more eventually, and then whatever. And I spend them in things that I don't really need, not all the time. I'm trying to still be like, have this low time preference kind of thing, way of thinking, but it affects

Mike Peterson: 1:21:30

so so this, this is something that I get an argument with people all the time about, because they're like, why would you spend SATs you get rid of your Fiat? And it's like, no, you're missing the point. If you live on a Bitcoin standard, you wind up with a lot more SATs. Spending SATs actually makes you have more Bitcoin, because you question every purchase that you make. You value that. And so any Fiat that you have, you can convert it right now any Fiat you have, the opportunity cost of that Fiat is Bitcoin that you don't have. So unless you're in a place where you have no ability, which is very few people, to exchange your Fiat to Bitcoin, you are choosing to remain in the Fiat world. And because you're doing that, you have less Bitcoin because you spend the money more freely, because you don't value it like if you move to a Bitcoin standard, you will spend less money and you will have more Bitcoin. There's like, no other way around that.

Acreonte: 1:22:34

It is absolutely the case, and this is what I wanted to tell you that is happening to me, and I feel embarrassed about it, but I'm being honest, it's so hard to spend my SATs now, you know, it's like they're precious. So that's fear. You

Mike Peterson: 1:22:50

just need to automatically convert your paycheck as soon as you get it just exactly exerted in the

Acreonte: 1:22:56

Bitcoin. That's what it has to be done. But you know, it needs unconscious and conscious at the same time. So it's weird. It's Fiat mentality, 100% and I agree with you. I mean, living in a Bitcoin standard is nice. That is so good. It's natural. I don't know. Fiat is terrible, and your mind is, you know, I don't know. I don't want to say bad things, but it is terrible Fiat mentality. But it's so easy, it's embedded into the society. If you know what I mean, depending on who you are with, then that should that's how you take decisions, right? I miss being with Bitcoiners, surrounded by Bitcoiners, because we can speak the same language and we understand each other about so many things, while now with the Fiat guys. Well at work, you know, I mentioned Bitcoin because I cannot stop mentioning it. In fact, that was one of the first nicknames I had. I guess I had more, the Bitcoin director. They used to say, oh, there it is the Bitcoin director. Because, yeah, the first thing that I had my mug from blink. I love blink because of nor, yeah, right,

Unknown: 1:24:11

so.

Acreonte: 1:24:13

And also another one from Cuba, plus travel, which was an experiment that happened last year, from Cuba. Plus that, that was very interesting, actually. So I had a mug from a cup from Cuba, plus travel, which mentions Bitcoin, Bitcoin country. So I have things related to Bitcoin, and I show them, and I tell people about Bitcoin, right? So, but Yes, unfortunately that Fiat mind comes back when you start earning Fiat again. So now I'm like my SATs you hurt so much not spending them. When you come to places like this, el zonte, or you go to Berlin, it's so embarrassing to use Fiat. I. Yeah, like, no, no, you cannot do that. I mean, it's embarrassing. It comes natural again to use Bitcoin, yeah, right. And then you feel like, Oh, my God, freedom is very interesting, to be honest, what I believe it happens to the mind when you earn Bitcoin or you earn Fiat, it's completely different,

Mike Peterson: 1:25:22

no, 100% and that's why it's so important for companies to pay their employees in Bitcoin. Absolutely yes, because when you're not earning Bitcoin, it really short circuits that circular BITCOIN ECONOMY like it, and it causes like you're saying, it causes this disconnect. And people think about money. You

Acreonte: 1:25:42

know, my boss, Angel X, used to say the person who doesn't spend bitcoin is because doesn't have enough. Yeah, it has just few SATs, and that's why he's not spending them. So, yeah, good point. But as you said, you have to change your paycheck to Bitcoin, and then you won't have anything else to spend, just Bitcoin.

Mike Peterson: 1:26:02

Obviously, first choice is to be being paid in Bitcoin. But if you're not just automatically convert, first chance you get, yeah, that's right, and you'll wind up. I guarantee you, you will wind I don't care about the volatility, about the up and down, you will wind up with more Bitcoin overall, because it'll change your spending patterns.

Acreonte: 1:26:19

In fact, when I was earning in Bitcoin last year, I didn't pay attention to the price. I didn't care. I will just spend my SATs on whatever I needed, but I really needed, right,

Mike Peterson: 1:26:32

but not on extra junk that you didn't No, no, no, no.

Acreonte: 1:26:35

That wouldn't come too much like oh, and I will criticize that. Look at that guy wearing a suit and buying new suit. And I'm doing it now. I had to buy a couple of today because it's a casual Friday, so, but usually I would be wearing no tie, but yeah, with a suit, smart suit. So, yeah, that's what is happening to the Fiat mind. It is terrible spending. Sats is fantastic. It's an amazing feeling. And you don't notice again, when I started earning sat because I didn't have anything else to spend, I was spending SATs. And now that I had the that I have the opportunity, for example, when I go to Charito cafe in San Benito. It feels so good, like, Oh, my God, I'm spending that and you want to show it to people. Look, look how fast and nice. So, yes, it is, it is nice.

Mike Peterson: 1:27:29

Well, I think, I think that's a good note to end on. We've, we've, we've probably gone quite over hour and a half. Yeah. So, so we've, we're pushing it on the length here, so let's, yeah, sorry, no, no. It's just, I love the story. I've really enjoyed just hearing your life history and hearing this. But I think that is a good note to end on, is that, hey, if you can live on a Bitcoin standard, it's just so much more freeing. And we know a lot of people have to work in jobs where they get paid Fiat, but you know you're gonna have to work a little harder, but just convert that Fiat into into bitcoin so that you can continue spending Bitcoin. You can continue promoting the Bitcoin network and supporting the Bitcoin network, rather than the Fiat network,

Acreonte: 1:28:22

that's right, and especially here in Bitcoin country, we we don't have excuses. We cannot say, Oh, I cannot pay for this or this or that. Of course, you cannot pay for things that you don't really need. But here no excuses, yep, need to use

Mike Peterson: 1:28:36

our Bitcoin. All right. Well, I appreciate you coming down today.

Acreonte: 1:28:40

Thank you for having me. It was fun. Yeah.