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He Learned English From Pewdiepie And Is Now Running El Salvador’s National Artificial Intelligence Agency | Mario Flamenco

• Mike Peterson

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Mario Flamenco didn’t follow a typical path into government. As a teenager in one of the world’s most violent countries, he started watching Max Keiser and Stacy Herbert talk about Bitcoin on late-night reruns. A few years later, he’s working alongside them at the Bitcoin Office in El Salvador and now helping lead the country's AI and robotics strategy.

In this episode, Mario shares how El Salvador is using Bitcoin and artificial intelligence to create long-term economic change. We talk about the real work behind Lightning Network adoption, how the Kubo Plus program is teaching first graders AI and robotics, and why the government’s approach to education is rooted in digital sovereignty, not just tech hype.

This is more than a Bitcoin story. It’s about building systems that last, starting with kids in the classroom and going all the way up to national tech policy. If you care about where crypto, education, and real-world change meet, this one’s worth your time.

Hit subscribe, share with someone who still thinks Lightning Network is a theory, and drop a comment if you’d take Mario’s coding course.

-Bitcoin Beach Team


Connect and Learn more about Mario Flamenco
https://x.com/maiojose1 
https://x.com/theaiagencysv 

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Browse through this quick guide to learn more about the episode:

00:00 What was life like growing up in El Salvador before Bitcoin?
02:30 How did Mario Flamenco discover Max Keiser and Stacy Herbert?
04:44 What career options did young Salvadorans have before tech?
07:28 Why doesn’t access to information guarantee opportunity?
11:14 What’s broken about traditional engineering education?
15:41 How did Mario end up working with Max and Stacy?
18:49 What does the Bitcoin Office in El Salvador actually do?
26:52 How is El Salvador approaching AI policy and digital sovereignty?
31:57 Are kids in El Salvador really learning AI and robotics?
43:21 Can Salvadoran students become Bitcoin and Lightning Network leaders?
46:22 Why the airport shows El Salvador is building real infrastructure.

Live From Bitcoin Beach

Mario Flamenco:

When you exist in such a terrible place, you really have no perspective of how bad your situation is, until you start to realize how good it can get in some other places. The same with people that live in safe places, I guess they don't understand how bad it can get, until they go there and they experience it and well, that was a reality from Forever. The agency was supposed to do is to promote the education, to create collaboration with industries, with other countries, and to create a clear, clear path for these industries to develop in the country. And that's what they want, for starters, to understand what, what is needed from them, to comply with, you know, in terms of safety, in terms of ethics. So that's, that's the plan right now. You

Mike Peterson:

Mario, we got the new AI czar of El Salvador, and as you're like the David Sacks of El Salvador. Do you know who David Sachs is? I feel like I do. It has to be with banking. Yeah. He was appointed in, like, the Trump administration, like the, he's, like, the AI and crypto zone, yeah. So I know Yeah. I know that, yeah, yeah. So you're the David Sacks of El Salvador now, well, I guess so, minus the crypto part, because we don't do crypto here. Oh, definitely. No, that's, that's a bad word. So Mario, you've been working at the Bitcoin office for three years now. How long three years? I think it was the 14th of November of 2022

Unknown:

okay, that the Bitcoin office was officially launched, I think, and I've been there since it was launched,

Mike Peterson:

like I remember Stacy talking about you and talking about how fortunate she was to have somebody there to help her navigate through things, and so I know she's really appreciated you.

Mario Flamenco:

It's just been such a crazy ride. Without trying to sound too like copy paste from every, every person trying to explain the whole thing that has been going on in their life for the last four, three years, you know, yeah. So give us

Mike Peterson:

a little bit of your backstory. We were talking before we went on, that you were actually watching Max and Stacy when you were in high school back in, I think, 2011 you said that, yeah, so give us, give us a little bit of that backstory and what life was like for a young Salvador, and at that point, what you were thinking life had you know was going to hold for you versus what you've experienced.

Mario Flamenco:

Well, funny enough, before we started, I thought we had already started, but we hadn't right. So I was like getting in the zone to explain the reality of this country 15 years ago. So the reality of this country 15 years ago was violence. Just today, this morning, I rewatch on Twitter, they were posting some photos about about the boss that they turn on on fire. I

Mike Peterson:

remember that when the gangs basically lit the bus on fire full of people,

Mario Flamenco:

yeah, yeah. Honestly, that was like, terrible. But for us was like, oh, again, or something. You know, it

Mike Peterson:

was, it was news. But it wasn't like, crazy news. It was like, here we

Mario Flamenco:

go time. And he didn't even happen that far from where I live or from the rest of my family lives, and I don't even know like when you exist in such a terrible place, you really have no perspective of how bad your situation is until you start to realize how good it can get in some other places. The same with people that live in safe places, I guess they don't understand how bad it can get until they go there and they experience it, and well, that was a reality from Forever. 15 years ago, I was in high school, and

Mike Peterson:

hey guys, just a brief interruption. We'll get back to the exciting show here, but I just want to really ask a favor that you guys could make sure that you're subscribed if you're watching this on YouTube, if you are listening to this on a podcast, please take the take a second and review this. You know you don't even have to write a lengthy review or anything at all. Just click the number of stars that you want to give us. It really helps us in the algorithms to make sure people are finding out about what's happening here. All right, back to the show,

Mario Flamenco:

being 15 years old and not being particularly special in many ways, I always was bound by the reality of being a young person in a very poor country. In a very poor and the most dangerous country in the planet, which, despite my inherent positivism as a person, as a personality thing, I always felt the huge pressure of the reality that, the fact that I didn't know how I was going to do nothing more than who knows what, maybe aim to be an engineer in a in a very low paid job in some bank, you know, like, that's what engineer software engineers do in this country. They work for a bank app, for the bank app, yeah, and that's like the most prestigious job, and it's, it's not that great. And so

Mike Peterson:

did you just curious? Did you go to a bilingual high school because your English is very

Mario Flamenco:

good? No, I just watched PewDiePie. But

Mike Peterson:

watched what PewDiePie? PewDiePie? I don't know

Mario Flamenco:

what that is. It's a YouTuber. Okay, so I was watching a lot of YouTube, and also the Kaiser report, like I was abnormally interested in financial stuff when I was that young, because,

Mike Peterson:

yeah, for a high schooler to be watching the final year Kaiser report, I do believe I

Mario Flamenco:

was watching since like, maybe 1314, and you know, Max always says that he would be that way because he wanted to help The weirdos. He says that he was always trying to attract the weirdos to watch him. So that's why he would act that way, or the person that wouldn't think in the the in the in the in the most normal way. Yeah, because you have to be a little bit weird to start watching the guy screaming on TV and pretending to be a tapeworm in Jerome Powell's asshole, you know, being Jamie diamond and that type of thing. So but, you know, I was 15, and I thought I was funny in and I just kept watching. And then I I started to realize that what he was saying actually made sense in the world where really wasn't making much sense, that, why are we here? And but more specifically, how is it that I was, or me, or anybody else in this country was supposed to do anything with their lives if it was so difficult, regardless of the access we have to the internet, which means information, you know, imagine you're just someone very interested in learning in this country 15 years ago, and it doesn't matter how much you learn, because who you're Who's going to care?

Mike Peterson:

Yeah, you have access to the information, but not the opportunity to use that information.

Mario Flamenco:

Now that I have worked so much with students and younger people than me and brighter people than me, I've realized that regardless of many things, you don't get a job because you're you. It helps that you're great at what you do, but the most important thing is that they trust you, is that they they can rely on you, because you're not gonna hire a genius that you have never seen in Afghanistan, yeah, you know, it's like, oh, I'm in Afghanistan, you know, blah, blah, like, maybe answers all the questions, right? But he's in Afghanistan you've never seen, yeah, you know. And they can just send you a pixel, a photo taken with a with a telephone. So you're gonna feel reluctant to hire that person or to rely that person on something important. So locality does matter, and the background of the region where the person lives matters matters a lot, and that's something that hadn't been fixed for us till now. And so, yeah, so 15 years ago, watching Kaiser report on reruns in some super random channel that had just come out, and it didn't have much programs, really. So they were doing reruns of Deutsche Valley and Russian today. So at maybe two, 1am in the morning, when I was like, supposed to be sleeping going to high school, I started watching it. It was Stacy and Max talking some crazy stuff, Max screaming and Stacy making some sense out of Max gelling and and starting to make sense start when someone offers a young person some logic and some sense and some meaning in what the world is is doing to this person's life that becomes very attractive. So I just became very attracted to the idea of following the Kaiser report, and I just kept doing it even when, because the reruns are not like they're not constant, you know, they stop. Maybe they don't do it every, every week, or maybe two months later they don't stop doing it. So I started watching on YouTube, and of course, I very clearly, became very clear that English was a very important thing. Many people struggle with languages, and I wasn't like different from that, like English was my worst subject in school, right?

Mike Peterson:

And Spanish was for me. So ironically, since I'm living in Latin America now, so yeah, and

Mario Flamenco:

you know. That tells you everything about how we teach kids things like it was the worst, and also math. And now I'm now I speak English, and I'm somewhat of an engineer, so that's very interesting about education. And so I just kept at it, and I just kept consuming all that that knowledge instead of focusing on on pleasing my my my thermodynamics teachers in the way that they wanted to be pleased, because that's what they want. They want to be pleased. They want them. They want you to know that to do things the exact way they are doing it somehow, you know. So I was studying food engineering, and I had thermodynamics as a class, and I was the one explaining everybody else the concepts, conceptually, why we were thinking about entropy, and about the geeks, whatever laws and whatever, I was explaining the theory. But I was very bad at doing the calculations. And if you don't do the calculation right, it's like if you didn't do anything, yeah. So I

Mike Peterson:

know in El Salvador, especially then, they was very like rote learning. They want you to memorize and do it exactly and not necessarily focused on being able to think through the problems. Oh, yeah,

Unknown:

you just, you just, you're only supposed to reproduce the techniques that someone else created. Yeah, that's why there is no innovation, really, because they don't learn to think. They just, they just teach you to to reproduce, to continue doing the thing, like, if you're a food engineer, someone in Germany probably came up with a system to process something, and you just have to follow the system. They don't want you to create a new, better system, more more efficient, more specified for our needs. They just want you to do what the German guy did. That's what the company wants you to do. So yeah, inherently, there is no innovation in any aspect when you teach that way. And instead of like because that killed my soul as an engineer or as a person, I just started watching the guys report, and pretty much by watching I learned so much about how to even behave as a human being. Like one of the last things that I was watching right before Max, I met Max and Stacy was somehow they were talking about people that get things done, and people that just go through the noise, and they were, like, being very specific about that in a couple of episodes right before I met them. And when I met them, I was like, I did that. Like, I was like, straightforward, like being meaning to meet you all this time, and now you're here, and yeah, and then Stacy recognized something in me, I guess, and she hired me, like, like, four or five months after she met me, okay? And that's when the Bitcoin officer, you

Mike Peterson:

sought them out when they came in, when

Mario Flamenco:

they came in. Well, I do, because this is a podcast, right? So podcasts are more personal. Have some more freedom to talk about personal stuff other than just, oh, you're the director of some institution. You like, Bitcoiners don't really care too much, too much about that. Anyways, right? So I've, I've always been interested in many things that many Bitcoiners are interested in, like, meaning, religion, thought process, the universe, energy, blah, blah, blah. And I have come out with some that fit me the best, which include Wim Hof breathing techniques, Jordan Peterson's way of structuring your thought process, and some other things that have to do with the law of attraction. I'm sorry, visualizing something so you get it so legit. I was like, visualizing my max and stays in 2014 like 15, because I had, I had sat down and meditate a little bit, and I was like, what do I really want to do with my life, without any restraint or any prejudgment of like, if it's possible or not. And I was like, the absolute best thing that I could ever do or start doing, is to be max Kaiser's assistant and start from there. Because I just really felt like I could trust him in a thought, in a in a theoretical way. Because you need to, you need to, want to help who you're helping, you know? And I didn't want to just a job. I wanted to do something that mattered. So that's what I wanted. In 2014 2019 the President I Bucha le, I think, mentioned Bitcoin, right? Like, when was it? In 2021 he made it legal. 2021 I guess. And that was, what, six, seven years before, before that, I think the President wasn't even a major of the maybe he was the major of NOVA cuscatlan. When I was thinking that I wanted to work for Max Kaiser. And then I really, like, for like, three years, I just meditated on it. It. I just really always thought that somehow is gonna, I was gonna work for him or for them, I guess. And so when the law passed, I was like, relieved, because I was like, Oh, finally, whatever I was visualizing is happening. And then they came, and then they stayed. And for like, maybe almost a year, I never met them, and I kind of knew where they were. It wasn't the pandemic times like ending the pandemic times, but I never really tried to reach out to them, until Stacy mentioned that she was bringing Jimmy song. And I was like, Oh, wait, I can code so I can take this course. And I did. I took it. I met them.

Mike Peterson:

You participated in the first course that they did. That was the first one, right? Jimmy, yeah,

Unknown:

yeah. It was, it was amazing. And as soon as I knew he was coming and that that was happening, I I read the coding Bitcoin from scratch, like three times, and I did the whole thing, because it's more than a book. It's an exercise. You need to install a bunch of things, and then you're running, and then you just start answering everything. And I did that, like three times, and then I read the whole thing like five times, until the point where, like, if I remember a topic, I could like, Oh, I know in this page talks about it, and then I did the course. And then I was like, so this is me. I think crazy things, things that most people don't base their lives on, but I do. And she was like, Oh, amazing. Maybe we can, like, work something together. Maybe you can help us with some stuff. And then max says that he was scared of me or something. He was like, Who's this guy? Like, I think he's crazy or something. And

Mike Peterson:

which, which is ironic coming from Max, yeah. And then things are happening. Then I was hired a few months later, and since then, Stacy's been teaching me how to get shit done, as simple as that, because that's what you need to do when, when you do what we do. And she's very good at that. She gets stuff done. Yeah, it's yeah, it's

Unknown:

just she doesn't care how I get it done, like it has to get done, and there's no excuses. And I can, I feel like I can do whatever. Yeah, no, just thanks to that and, yeah,

Mike Peterson:

no, there's definitely you learn to recognize the people in the world that just get things done. I mean, that's you know, as a business owner, my whole life, it was always you just had to get it done. There was no excuse, there was no reason why you couldn't done you just whenever you had to do it,

Unknown:

whenever you hire anybody to get things done, you don't hire them with a resume, you hire them with an interview, and you get their their feeling, right? You can do it or, like, if you're, like, too soft or too

Mike Peterson:

yeah, sometimes people, they might not even know the subject matter, but you can tell they're the type person who's going to figure out a way to get it done, where the expert might have all the knowledge, but they don't have the, I don't know what it is that X factor to actually, like, get it

Unknown:

done. The expert wants a contract once with detailing everything you want from them. And you actually need to hire another person to hire the expert, actually, because the expert is just going to do exactly to the to the to the fine print, yeah, what you tell them to do. But it's not exactly how you need it. You also need, you always need the person that can get things done. So I guess that's what Stacy's been teaching me and made me become in these last three years. And

Mike Peterson:

so what in your role in the Bitcoin office? What did you spend most your time doing? I know you, you traveled quite a bit to conferences and and more involved things. But what was kind of the day to day grind for you

Mario Flamenco:

that doesn't exist, really, like it was always just, I just do

Mike Peterson:

whatever needs, yeah,

Unknown:

like, actually, for three years, I've been sent to tell ministers what to do with because sometimes, at first, right? Like, they didn't know what Bitcoin was, right, yeah. And they will, like, most of them didn't know what, yeah, and so, and they sometimes didn't know that there was a Bitcoin office. So I was like, Hi, I'm the Bitcoin office, and you need to follow these guidelines. Because, you know, like, you shouldn't just create something like that or or do things with cheat corners and stuff, and from getting bookings in hotels and dinner reservations for for people that come meet the President or something to go greet them, To run education programs to filter students, to make web pages and databases for managing the students, absolutely anything that needed to be done. Like, I've actually, I don't think I've ever had, like a reproducible day, like there's no such thing. It just need to move people do. Because, well, especially in this country, is quite difficult that that attitude, that everybody, everyone wants to follow what their contract says, Yeah, because we're very scared.

Mike Peterson:

Well, it's a very top down, like people are afraid to do stuff unless they've been specifically authorized to do

Mario Flamenco:

and so when the guy like the 2829 year old guy with a cap and shorts, speaking weird, comes to your to your government office, and tells, starts telling you what to do. And you're like, Well, who the fuck are you, you know, and then I have to, like, explain who I am and why they need to do what I tell them. And that's that, that's being it, yeah, getting, getting things done at multiple levels and and that's been very, very instructive, like, I've learned so much, and I've become so much, I mean, bigger than what I was. I think that's what I've been doing this,

Mike Peterson:

what's been the most surprising thing about your position, or that things that you've been able to participate in.

Unknown:

Well, I guess is one of the things that we realize over the time, like we can just do stuff.

Mike Peterson:

I love that phrase. I love I love that phrase. You can just do stuff,

Mario Flamenco:

yeah, because fuck it like, unless, like someone dies, which, I mean, who's gonna die? There's so much you can do before you cross that line, and you should just do it. And I guess actually, this morning, I was thinking, what's like, the absolutely most mind blowing thing that I've learned these last years, and probably is that probably the whole world is made of sheep, and you can just become a lion, and you decide that, and most people are just afraid to death of something,

Mike Peterson:

no. But what if this happens? What if that happens, or that's allowed

Mario Flamenco:

and that's stop them? Yes. And if you realize that there is nothing to fear, you can just do everything, yeah, and if you fail, who cares? And actually, if you fail, awesome, because you learn what not to do. You already mapped that part of the possibilities. That's how AI actually works. You know, like they try and fail 1000 billion times until they succeed and they learn and we should do the same. And the thing is that AI is not afraid we are. Yeah,

Mike Peterson:

I never thought of it like that, but that that makes sense. Yeah, that's I think I've always kind of freaked people out, because that's how I've lived my life. I've just feel like, what you're moving to El Salvador? It's the murder cap of the world. And I'm like, yeah, no, but that's, that's where I want

Unknown:

to be. Yeah, you're extremely interesting. You move way before anything. You're the reason why everything happened first place, in many ways. And you were here. How many years ago?

Mike Peterson:

Well, we came. We actually bought our first house here in 2005

Mario Flamenco:

so I was 10. Yeah, 20 years ago. Very

Mike Peterson:

early, very early. Whoa, why I came here on a surf trip and fell in love with the country the people. It was this interesting place where, like, the people were, like, so friendly and hardworking, but the same time, you could tell like something was holding them back. Like it was this. Some places you go in the world and you're like, I don't know if this country's ever going to develop because the work ethic and the mindset, but I didn't feel that here. I felt in El Salvador, like people had the work ethic they had, like the desire to live, but there was, like, something holding it back, definitely something special, like percolating, definitely seeing

Unknown:

the hermanos, lejanos, the Salvadorans that go to the US succeed, definitely inspired us enough to believe that it was actually possible and to maybe at least try. Like, I think actually, in 2000 and 567, I actually came to El sante. El sante wasn't a popular beach at all, like it was one of the most desolated beaches in terms of tourists, national tourists. And that's actually the reason why we came here, because my uncle said, like, Oh, that was, like an empty one, because you always trying to find the empty one, because there's too much people sometimes, yeah. So we came here, like, so long ago, and we came like, three times and there was nothing,

Mike Peterson:

yeah, there was only, I think our last permanent days was one of the only, like, hotels at that time. And and Cincinnati via, I think was there too. And saburo's place, there was like three hotels in town, and

Unknown:

that was insane, yeah, like, like, like, pieces of land are worth millions,

Mike Peterson:

yeah? Like, right now, you go around the corner and there's a new construction that wasn't

Unknown:

there yesterday is and, you know, that's how this country is going to look like, because that's, this is, like the nucleus of the Bitcoin revolution thing, and that's, that's El Salvador right now, like it's just maybe al sante 2000 what? 2020 Yeah. And huge signal.

Mike Peterson:

Yeah, definitely. So for you in this shift, will you still be doing things with with the Bitcoin office, or is your role totally shifting? Or is it going to be a gradual shift to my

Unknown:

choice to get things done okay and like only the future says it's gonna tell me what I need to do. Definitely, I just have, like, more things to do. But, you know, I become, like quite of the alchemist on, somehow, the magician, to grab a second and stretch it. You know? You know, it's, we see time as a bi dimensional, actually one dimensional, linear structure now starting to become two dimensional, like each second can be, can have, like, multiple things going on in that second. So it's just a matter of mastering that, you know, that magic to make a day last longer while keeping sane. And the whole thing is just things to do. There's always something to do. And common sense, which is the number one policy, I guess, of our government, is just common sense. After all, common sense and getting within the Getting Things Done, agenda, that's it, and whatever it's needed, whatever the president sends me to do, and whatever Stacy thinks is best to definitely, there's a bunch of other things, like, actually, that's why I was like, quite late today to this meeting. And we reschedule a bunch of things to do, but we will always make it, make it work.

Mike Peterson:

So what, what is your main like mandate and focus within the AI component? And where do you? How does that connect with the the Bitcoin office? And, well, what's happening

Mario Flamenco:

there? The the agency. It's a agency that it's set to set some rules on, on the game. Industry, especially new industries, require Clear, clear, jurisdictional like, how do you call them laws like, or guidelines? Guidelines clear on that, like, if you make it clear from the beginning, it's just way easier for them to do it, to go for your jurisdiction, to develop something. So we're doing that with artificial intelligence, with robotics, with the main drivers of the future, of the future economical growth of the world.

Mike Peterson:

And as El Salvador like actively trying to recruit people from the AI industry, or is this more of a ground up, trying to build that from from the Salvadoran student population that's graduating

Unknown:

the brightest minds of artificial intelligence are already very interested in this country because the President is so famous for Such a good things, like getting the violence controlled. So everybody is, like interested on the jurisdiction that has such a strong leadership and such a clear path towards development. And that's why, well, I run the Kubo program, education program that started as a Bitcoin program. Now we say an artificial intelligence also,

Mike Peterson:

I didn't realize that. So it's not just Bitcoin. No, we're already

Mario Flamenco:

doing artificial intelligence courses and lectures. And the first lecture was Kathy Wood, who is extremely important in the in well, in all technology industry, she's one of them, if not the most famous investor in any technological

Mike Peterson:

amazing that you guys were able to have her, as she was the first

Mario Flamenco:

lecturer, yes, and many other very important figures have given class and will give class the same way we have always done it with, with, with Bitcoin, yeah, the image of El Salvador, The idea of it that all the people in the world has about it, it makes it very attractive for anybody that's anybody in artificial intelligence or robotics or Bitcoin, to want to give class to our students, and that gives them the perfect first step into Our country and through us and into their potential future, moving here, developing here, teaching here, so the kids and students that they teach become the core of the futures development and well, that's, I would say, then, first and most developed aspect of what we do as Bitcoin office and also as as Anya, Anya, artificial intelligence agency, we're we focus a lot on education. Every single other government that contacts us, they always meant, they always mention education as the main thing that it's so special about us. Because many any other government or any other government official, they always focus on quick growth, and that's not what you get with education. With education, you get the growth that's going to live for sustainable decades, hundreds of years, 1000s of years. And that's the only way you become a strong powerhouse after a few decades, if you just did things quick. It was like llamada tools in Spanish, just like a poof and it disappeared. So we have the long like the low time preference that safer ditched us and we have focused in the most low time preference thing possible, which is starting with Bitcoin education and now getting the artificial intelligence correct and the robotics correct so the best and most ethic and long thinking, long term thinking, investors and developers in each industry decide that El Salvador has to be part of their strategy. And that's our ethos. And the agency was supposed to do is to promote the education, to create collaboration with industries, with other countries, and to create a clear, clear path for these industries to develop in the country. And that's what they want, for starters, to to understand what, what is needed from them, to comply with, you know, in terms of safety, in terms of ethics. So that's, that's the plan right now,

Mike Peterson:

when it comes to education, are you guys primarily focused on people at the university level, or is this like all throughout the you know, high school, elementary school level? What is your guys focus on, on the far as education all throughout

Unknown:

Kathy Wood, actually, she met the president, I think, last year, actually, David pool, her second hand, gave a lecture in Kubo, plus about analysis, about on chain analysis. And that was, it wasn't just about on chain analysis, about it was about market some market analysis, some complicated financial stuff that arc does, and that was last year. And she met the President also last year. And since then, we've been working with Arc educate, which is the education hand arm of arc, and we are teaching first graders. So seven year old students, artificial intelligence and robotics classes, seven year olds, seven year olds, and we are the only country in the world that does that, and only very high end private schools in the US and maybe Europe have anything similar. So we have the absolute best education in this country already, compared to anybody nowhere, and that's with with artificial intelligence and robotics. We're also doing the little hodler books, workbooks with with Lena from I think first grade to might be second grade, I don't remember exactly, and and then we have high schools. We have the program of No Nation. We get the technical students, and we teach them how to run a note, how to be their own bank, how to how to make channels in between them, and now the Bitcoin office has a node. We're going to start making some channels with them. And that's the idea that we had so long ago, right? Like a whole country made with a bunch of lightning channels and exchanging sovereignty, sovereignty. So we have the whole spectrum since first grade, and I do believe art is trying to do some even younger. I think so I might have heard something. And then we have Google Plus, which focuses on university students, although we have had some high schoolers that were just graduating, and also professionals. So it's the the all the spectrum of education, all the way to university and after that, because cool, plus, arguably, is like the best Bitcoin course as ever existed. At least Peter told me that he said that it was right with another one that I don't remember the name of, but it was that one and Google Plus, and in terms of being complete and being intensive, and that's what we're doing with education and also artificial intelligence now, and a little bit of Rob. Politics. We just had a hugging face letterboat hackathon last week, so we're doing the whole thing. So in 20 years, when these guys and some of the kids grow up, they know what to do. They know how to they have the skills necessary to take advantage of everything, and I guess that's what a government should do, you know, to keep all these opportunities. So that's what we're doing. And those are things that show up like the best in 20 years. But that's why we have the low time preference we're building for the future in the present. Yeah.

Mike Peterson:

So when you were 15 year old watching the Kaiser report. I bet you never dreamed that, and I didn't

Unknown:

know what I was gonna do. Like, if I was, like, certain that I was gonna be max or Stacy's assistant, I don't know what I thought. I don't know really, maybe, maybe I would have never even thought that we were going to be in this country. Maybe it was, I don't know, because I don't remember what I was visualizing exactly like how it looked in my vision. But definitely never really thought too much that we could do it, and we're just doing we're doing like the absolute best in the absolute most, the most difficult things tend to be like, the best things to do, and that's maybe that's why they're so difficult, because they're they're the best path, and that's maybe that's why life is always so difficult, because you're always trying to do the best. Maybe if you're not, it gets easy, yeah, so you're not innovating. I didn't know. I didn't know at all, and it's been so incredible, like, Sure, I've traveled quite a lot. I've sometimes I force myself to travel. Sometimes I'm not necessarily required there, but I'm like, Oh, don't worry. I'll pay for it, like, and I'll just go and, and, and it's amazing, actually. You know, as a Bitcoiners, especially as a not that wealthy bitcoiner, you always, always think, like, should I spend on this? Should I go here? Whatever? And it's always been worth it, because I'm a

Mike Peterson:

big believer, yeah, and the value of travel, and because I

Mario Flamenco:

could have, like, three times more Bitcoin now or and have not done shit, yeah, with my life the last year, other than work, and I would have, I would not be the person that I am today, even for work, like even my capacity to handle things like the simple vision of how good it can get, it would not be the same if I would have not seen how good it can get. I tried to go very often to Asia, because my wife's from Taiwan. So Taiwan is, like, it's so amazing, like, and they have, like, the best transport in the world, system of transportation, and the best roads in certain areas, the best systems, at least. And we have the worst, some of the worst in this country, because of the driver's attitudes, mostly. And if, if I didn't know that, actually, you can behave when you drive, and

Mike Peterson:

you can let people go, you can let people merge in, yeah,

Mario Flamenco:

and they you don't have to almost die every time you get into a car. I wouldn't know better. Yeah, I wouldn't. I wouldn't try to improve, you know, like, because it's all like your your expectation, your your the framework or of how you see the world determines how, how good you're going to try to improve. And if everything I knew was this country, I would have never tried to get any any any better.

Mike Peterson:

No, I'm a huge proponent of travel. I know how much it impacted my life traveling when I was in college and just out of college. And so whether it's people on the Bitcoin beach team or the other projects we work with around the world, whenever we get a chance to send them to a conference or to bring them together with other projects, you know people. You know it can be expensive, but you're like, Yeah, but you don't realize, like, the payoff will be over the next 40 years of their life, and how productive they are. That's my favorite, how they see things.

Mario Flamenco:

That's my favorite thing about well, because I have something similar with the cool applause students and the cool plus team, like the cool plus team is just a few cool plus students from previous years, and they had similar situations as me, like just normal salva lorenos that don't even have a USA visa. Yeah, and, and bringing them places is just fantastic, because they cannot believe it, and they cannot believe that they're there, or they cannot believe that is actually that big, or that is actually that bright, or that is actually that efficient things in general, like transportation or skyscrapers or food, that it can actually taste that good, and it can actually be that healthy, not all those seed oils, and when they come back, even with me, like when I come. Back. I'm just ready to blow things, to blow it through the roof, you know, I'm just ready to be like, Okay, let's get this thing done. Let's get this country straighten up. I

Mike Peterson:

think it also helps you. Another thing is, it does help you appreciate things that you love about El Salvador too. Because when you you go there's certain things that you miss, and you realize, like, yes, there's lots of things that need to improve, but there's lots of inherent beauty and bounty here in El Salvador also.

Mario Flamenco:

Oh, yeah, it depends on the place too, but definitely, yeah, it's like, it's a great feel. It's a great feel. Actually, I have all these ideas, right, that not necessarily have shared, but, you know, the Red Cross, how is like emulated to the Swiss, the Swiss country, like, it's just the opposite, right? Like, so it's supposed to be some type of NGO that it's, it reflects the Swiss values on of neutrality, trying to help the wounded in like in wars at first, and now it's just an institution like this, right? So I was like, I've actually been thinking that salvadoranos should become some type of Bitcoin diplomats in general, like the students that we sent, sometimes with scholarship programs to other countries, they should go very full aware of of the sound money properties, and go teach their, their, their classmates in other countries about, about how we got it done, you know, the money part. And I think that's, that's a project that I just have in my mind, and I just want it to come along, you know, for salvarenas to become some type of Red Cross diplomatic thing about Bitcoin, about excellence in in money creation and being sovereign.

Mike Peterson:

I love that. I love that definitely with them, with them coming out from here, with that bat, with that type of background, because there's we, I think sometimes we assume, being here in El Salvador, we feel like everybody knows about Bitcoin, and, you know, maybe they just don't want to hear more about it. But you realize there's so many people in the world that haven't even heard about Bitcoin, like they don't, or if they've heard about, they don't understand, like, even a little bit

Unknown:

about, I still go somewhere and I ask a waiter if I can pay with Bitcoin. And they actually don't know what that is, still, yeah, still. And it's pretty much the most successful thing in Financials ever, already, and, and you could think that, Oh, everybody knows about it, or at least anybody has it in their mind, especially since Trump has such a strong policy on it. But no,

Mike Peterson:

yeah, a lot of people, they're focused on their own lives, their own problems, and like, yeah,

Unknown:

yeah. And imagine salvadoranos becoming that, that voice in especially the ones that get scholarships, they tend to be so focused in their studies. Yeah, so I want to target them to teach them very well what money is and the whole ethos of Bitcoin. And, yeah, there's like, endless possibilities, and we just, we can just do it. You know? It's it. It just requires me to create a new dimension in time. So, so we get it done.

Mike Peterson:

I love that. So do you have any set goals for the the next year in your new position? I know you've just been appointed to it, so you're probably still wrapping your your head around what it's going to entail, but

Mario Flamenco:

yeah, we, we, actually, we've been working for quite a long time to get certain, let's say, partnerships or cooperation agreements, done, and to get them like, to realize them. So get those done definitely, and to kick start many education programs and to build new ones. Actually, within the next weeks, we're going to be announcing a bunch of very good stuff that, you know, we can just not just say what it is, because it requires, like some of these huge corporations, they have departments, whole departments, of PR, right? Like, then you have to sign a contract with their PR department about how to talk about them, even like or about the cooperation. But you know, there's a bunch of cooperation things that we're going to do with Google Plus, with the students in in the schools. Arc, I'm sure we're going to make it like grow and to expand more arc educate programs, and it's straightforward, just common sense, not regulation, actually, because these, these laws that we're doing are not they're inviting. They're not to stop anything, but to create a clear path for companies. To actually be able to do what they what they need to do, and to incentivize them in any way that is actually possible. So those are the goals to keep the machine going, because we are moving in a steady, stable way that it's the total opposite of what cheat coins do. You know, they just land land in your country, they ask you to buy their token, and then pumps and dumps. Pumps and dumps start. It's not a heartbeat, right? So what we're doing is grabbing from the ground everything and building it together, you know? So when you're in the half life of the pyramid, you're like, Sure, you're just halfway there, but actually you just have to build a, what like almost nine times smaller pyramid to get there, because you already have the base. So we have we're just exponentially growing and exponentially becoming more successful. And that's the way the President has done things, and that's the way we are going to keep doing them, and simply excellence, only being as efficient as possible, following the philosophy that we have, which is sound money, low time preference, and what also the president preaches about God in general. You know, it's just common sense.

Mike Peterson:

Yeah, no. I think for me, one of the best representations of the type of progress Loza was making is the airport. Like, it just keeps getting better and more efficient, and it's faster to get through, and everything makes sense. They've gotten rid of the extra steps. Like, now you don't have to go through immigration on the way out. You don't have to pay an entry fee when you come in. You they got rid of all these extra steps, and they've just streamlined it, so it makes it this great experience for people to come and visit. Now I go to other places. I'm so frustrated because I'm gonna sit in line for an hour and a half and pay this fee here and fill out this stupid paper and like,

Mario Flamenco:

I've been going a lot to Guatemala for personal reasons. And, you know, Guatemala is the country next door and much bigger. And historically, it's been way much more wealthier, yeah, and they have much more they have they've been more developed in general, like they have more skyscrapers, they have more modern things in general, because they're just being wealthier and they're bigger, and their airport reflects that in a certain way. But they have such a bad situation right now with safety and politically and their airport is empty, like the stores are closed at 5pm at 4pm It's closed. Everything is closed. It feels depressing and is bigger, maybe, I don't know, like, definitely, maybe not twice as big as El Salvador airport, but bigger, but it's empty and our and then I come back here and it's freaking like, it's super busy, but fast still, everything gets processed. Every story is open, yeah. So there is people coming, yeah. So it's booming. There is, like, foreigners coming here for whatever reason, but they're not going to Guatemala. And also the businesses, like they're open at 9am and 9pm and in you can see how, how it's just boom times in many ways and and we're only going to keep that if we, if we keep steady, yeah, you know, if we keep delivering nice, high quality things,

Mike Peterson:

definitely, I think that's a good note to end on, unless there's something else we haven't covered that you wanted to chat about.

Unknown:

Oh, my God, so much. I just Well, you know, because I was disappointed a week ago, I think. And it's been crazy. I'm just going how we say in Spanish, de la SEC la Mecca, up and down, everywhere, yeah, and I don't know, I guess for a billion times. I imagine the first time Mike Peterson was gonna interview me, you know, is one of those moments, like I watched so many of those moments, you know, like when Jordan Peterson interviews someone that acts actually been watching Jordan Peterson for quite a while or but I'm sure I'll remember one day, and I'm sure maybe in a few years, you want to interview me again.

Mike Peterson:

We need to have you back on here in a few months, when you can share, once you've gotten in the office and gotten your

Unknown:

can do an annual report. Yeah, yeah. Checks and balance, checks and balance, like like talker just did to cruise, you know, but something like that.

Mike Peterson:

So, so are you gonna do that to me? Like Tucker did the cruise? You should do it in line.

Unknown:

Yeah, you need to keep, keep us in line. You're there. You're the chickens. And balance in this country, you have to be no.

Mike Peterson:

And that's, that's one of the things I. Appreciate about El Salvador is, you know, despite what a lot of people say, you you can bring up problems, you can, you know, bring up issues, it's still a free society. I feel much more free here than I would if I was in the UK or Australia,

Mario Flamenco:

yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like, yeah. I don't even want to think about those places. Really, it's like, it's crazy. And, you know, perspective, you know, media really has such a big impact on everything, yeah, like, before I went to Asia, I thought it was a totalism everywhere. You know, everybody was, like, in Japan, they were depressed. In South Korea, they were like, k pop or something like, it's totally different when you go there, like Saudi Arabia or Abu Dhabi or those type of places you can really have no idea what a place is like unless you go there and talk to the people, yeah, like, for as much as you you research, there's just no way YouTubers help, though, because YouTubers really share their lives and really share their actual thoughts, and that's the real like,

Mike Peterson:

yeah, much more than the media presentation The YouTubers, their their boots on the ground, they're given the real story.

Unknown:

I honestly, I could not respect anybody ever watching media in general, like CNN or some, some establish anything. It's just propaganda. And it has always been, I guess, but,

Mike Peterson:

but we didn't know before we had YouTube and everything else, we didn't realize how much it

Unknown:

was, you know, now we have the option. Now we have YouTube. So it's up to us to actually look for the right answers. So it's up to us now, yeah, it's more freedom, more freedom of option.

Mike Peterson:

Well, perfect. Well, we will circle back with you, hopefully in a few months, maybe in November, around the time of adopting Bitcoin, we can get you back on. Oh, yeah,

Unknown:

adopting Bitcoin, yes, it's just around. Going to be a crazy one this year.

Mike Peterson:

I'm looking forward to it. Well, we will. We'll let you go. I know, even though it's the weekend, you're probably not off, because I know the government workers here do not, uh, they do not stop on the weekend. I

Unknown:

haven't had a free day in two weeks. I thought yesterday was going to be but they, then they call me for something is crazy. It's like nighttime is sometimes my free time, I guess.

Mike Peterson:

Yeah, no, that's, that's the thing I appreciate about the the government here is the the government workers work harder than than anybody, and we see ministers and people showing up late at night to things on the weekends.

Mario Flamenco:

Yeah, I think the President is very demanding, which is good, you know, like, we have a lot of things to do. You know, this country needs a lot. Like, it's not straightforward at all, but it's a total white canvas. Yeah, there's a bunch of convenience in. There's a bunch of building. There's a bunch of convenience in based on building. Because once you build something good, people are like, oh, so it can be done, so I'll do it and, and that requires 24/7, in for many public servants, and it's true, like, yeah, it's, it's just, and you have to actually like it and believe in it. Like, that's a very good, good filter for public servants here that if you if you actually can get a better job somewhere else, and you don't care enough to actually stick to it, you'll just go, you know, because, you know,

Mike Peterson:

you see, in a lot of places, people get the government jobs because they're easy, but it's the opposite. Here in El Salvador, the government jobs are some of the most demanding. And you can tell the people are really, you know, they are really about improving their country, but it's

Unknown:

because we're inspired now. Yeah, we're not trying to maintain anything in other places. They're just bureaucrats trying to maintain the stability of something already built. But here we have to build it like from zero. So it's a whole startup thing. So everybody has, like, full on responsibility, full, full on, hands on a bunch of projects. Like, I talk a lot with the Minister of Education that that guy is like, on everything, like, all the freaking time, and it's crazy, and it's amazing, really, it's quite cool,

Mike Peterson:

awesome. Well, thank you, Mario. We'll let you get back to work, and we will catch up with you around adopting Bitcoin. Thank you, Mike, you.