Preston Pysh Drops Bombshell on Bukele's Bitcoin Strategy

Live from Bitcoin Beach in El Zonte, El Salvador, as we dive deep into a fascinating conversation with Preston Pysh, a prominent voice in the Bitcoin community and a former Buffett enthusiast turned Bitcoin maximalist. We delve into Preston's transformative journey from adhering to Warren Buffett's investment strategies to embracing Bitcoin.

Throughout our discussion, Preston shares compelling arguments on how Bitcoin redefines the valuation of traditional assets like real estate and stocks, providing a new perspective on investment and economic stability. He provides insights into his current investment approach, focusing on entities like MicroStrategy that leverage Bitcoin's potential. 

We also touch on the groundbreaking move by El Salvador to adopt Bitcoin as legal tender, its implications for global economics, and what it signals for other countries considering similar paths. We’ll look into the potential future scenarios for Bitcoin as it continues to challenge traditional financial systems and the regulatory hurdles it might face. 

This is a must-listen for anyone interested in understanding the future of finance and the role Bitcoin plays in shaping it. Tune in!

- Mike

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Find out more about Preston's work:
https://www.youtube.com/@PrestonPysh
https://twitter.com/PrestonPysh
https://twitter.com/primal_app
https://twitter.com/egodeathcapital


Browse through this quick guide to learn more about the episode:

00:00:00 - How Does Leading Through Inspiration Affect Society?
00:00:56 - What's the Bitcoin Buzz About in El Salvador?
00:01:45 - Why Are Value Investors Turning to Bitcoin?
00:03:54 - How Is Bitcoin Changing the Financial Landscape?
00:06:48 - Why Do Some People Hesitate to Invest in Bitcoin?
00:10:40 - How Does Financial Inequality Affect Bitcoin Investment Decisions?
00:11:24 - Should You Invest in Assets Other Than Bitcoin?
00:13:25 - What Are the Risks of Investing in MicroStrategy?
00:17:48 - How Do Derivatives Influence Bitcoin Investment Volatility?
00:20:43 - Are Bitcoin ETFs a Safe Investment Strategy?
00:21:57 - Why Should Governments Consider Bitcoin for Their Treasury?
00:23:20 - Is the Government Misunderstanding Bitcoin?
00:25:36 - What Are the Unintended Consequences of Government Aid to Businesses?
00:27:47 - How Does Government Mismanagement Affect Financial Decisions?
00:31:12 - How Do Government Financial Policies Impact Consumption and Energy?
00:33:43 - What Is Modern Monetary Theory and How Does It Affect Government Policies?
00:35:14 - Can Market Performance Truly Offset Government Deficits?
00:36:48 - What Are the Investment Returns Potential of Bitcoin?
00:42:13 - How Does El Salvador's Bitcoin Adoption Influence Global Policies?
00:44:43 - Why Is Inspirational Leadership Important?
00:50:24 - Can Bitcoin Circular Economies Protect Financial Freedom?
00:54:57 - What Are the Main Threats to Bitcoin Adoption?
00:59:21 - How Can ETFs Affect Bitcoin's Market and Personal Sovereignty?
01:05:13 - What Are the Future Investment Prospects in El Salvador?

Live From Bitcoin Beach

Transcript

Preston Pysh  
You can lead by two ways. You can lead through fear by scaring the hell out of your people, where you can lead through inspiration. Because you have a leader that's choosing the lead through inspiration. I think there's other people that are taking note and I think that in the long run. I think it's just human nature, I think it's a law of the universe that the ones that actually do choose to lead through inspiration are the ones that in the long run are the true strong pillars of society in the world.


Mike Peterson  
Preston. We finally got you down to El Salvador.

Preston Pysh  
It's taken long enough.

Mike Peterson  
It's taken a long time. I'm excited though there's a lot of people that have been trying to get to come down here that showed up for the having party this year. So, it's they did something at the opening session today they asked people to raise their hands this first time in El Salvador and it was like more than half the most.

Preston Pysh  
So I mean, that's what yellow will do to you. How can you say no to yellow?

Mike Peterson  
Yeah, I was talking to him today about getting on the podcast. He's like, as far as we can figure out how to blur out my face and who I am and so I'm excited about that one. I actually started listening to you before you were really doing Bitcoin. On what is the investor's business? What's the least steady billion?  So I was funny because I enjoyed the the stuff that you guys were doing and I worked as a financial planner for a short stant and came from that kind of background. 

Mike Peterson  
And so I loved what you guys were talking about and then I kind of saw your transition, you know, on the show. I'm curious how that was from being like a Buffett devotee to becoming you know. What degenerate Bitcoiner?And you know how that was even within people within thelike, your value investing? Yeah, side of it, how people took that and you were, you're able to pull off like transitioning into doing the Bitcoin thing and staying within the network, which I'm assuming was was a difficult kind of it was line the walk so.

Preston Pysh  
Especially as the guy that you're covering, extensively Buffett. Basically saying bitcoin is rat poison, and all these other things, and I'm here like cotton.

Mike Peterson  
That was like your hero, it seemed like you were always like, that was kind.

Preston Pysh  
A little embarrassing to say it but I think if I had to, like be honest with myself. I was covering him as if he could never say any wrong. And yeah, man, I don't know what to tell you. Like one of the one of the core things that Buffett and Munger always talk about, is thinking for yourself first and foremost. And if there's somebody that you really admire, and they're telling you to do something or to invest in this that is the worst reason to ever do it. 

Preston Pysh  
And so luckily, I kind of always kept that core principle, in the way that I was looking at things is like, alright, well, you're saying you don't like this, but I have all these other reasons as to why I think it's going to change the world and why I think it's more investable than anything you're talking about, or anybody else is talking about. I was able to break out of that prison of, you know. I think that there's very sound principles of economic calculation that are happening there and I mean, we could get into that if you want or not, but.

Mike Peterson  
Yeah, I know, I do I do want to delve into that because I feel like, that is how we, I think me included want the world to be but the world's not like that more. And so bitcoin is addressing the world as it is right now. These people are still trying to act like we're in a world of sound money and financial responsibility but that's just not the world.

Preston Pysh  
Crazy, yeah I mean for me, it's like, okay, well, just, if a person was listening to this and they're kind of like, you know, a little suspect as to like the talking point. I would just say, take your house, like, whatever the value of your house is, today, in Fiat, just write it down, and then convert the value of that into Bitcoin and write that number underneath of it, and then just go back the last six or seven years. And if you could audit, if you could very objectively audit the value of your house, over those, each one of those years over the last six or seven years, and write the Fiat number next to, you know, on the top line of that Fiat number, it's not going to change like all that much. But if you convert it at that spot bitcoin price for each one of those years that those discrete moments over the last six or seven years and you're write that bitcoin price underneath of it, you're gonna have your mind, absolutely blown.

Mike Peterson  
Housing prices are going down?

Preston Pysh  
They're not just going down, they're excel iteratively, like going down in a fashion that, like, you're gonna look at the sheet of paper, you're gonna be like, hold on a second, like. What the hell am I missing here, like, there's something very strange about this? And until somebody like actually performs that calculation and just looks at something that is very near and dear to them they all know, they all understand the value of their house. It's probably the biggest purchase they've made ever in their life, and it's probably ever will be. 

Preston Pysh  
And when you compare that and you're looking at it, you're looking at this chart, that's literally just going straight down in value in Bitcoin terms and it'll take them days to digest that economic reality. And now do it for Apple stock, do it for Microsoft do it for I don't care what you name it company, in every single company, whether you're looking at market cap, whether you're looking at revenue, whether you're looking at net income, you name the metric, every single metric is just going straight down into the right in Bitcoin terms, and it's like, fall asleep at night looking at that chart and not have any exposure to this I dare you.

Mike Peterson  
So, how do you because that's what I always wonder. There's, I know a lot of very, very smart people smarter than me that still don't get it. I'm sure a lot of the people that you worked with in your prior podcasting, and you're doing still aren't in they're not Bitcoiners they're not in that world. So what is it? Why do you think some people grasp onto it and some people don't? I don't think it's an intelligence test.

Preston Pysh  
Yeah. I think that, um, I think a lot of people are just so busy with their day to day, like how they create value for society. You know, if you're a doctor, you're busy, they're trying to make sure that you can perform the surgery correctly. If you're a real estate agent, you're just trying to sell the next house. If you're and I could go on and on these people and then when they come home, they're not thinking about that. They're thinking about how do I get my son to baseball practice or how do I get my daughter to ballerina practice or whatever?

Preston Pysh  
And so their whole day in for a whole host of people, they're working a second job? And so they're extremely busy with their day to day operations, and they don't have time to think about something that's going to impact them five or ten years from now. They're not thinking about something that has absurd amounts of volatility, which bitcoin does. Whether you want to believe that reality or not, it's 70% annualized, 80%, annualized, and so they're looking at this thing that a person who has this ability to like really zoom out and look at this really big picture. Like you, anybody who's a hardcore Bitcoin, or who can do that, and has done that, for whatever reasons, I don't know. Maybe we're wired that way, maybe we just have.

Preston Pysh  
I think there's even people that are in the fight. I mean, there's so many people in the financial space that don't Yeah, I understand what you're saying about Yeah, these everyday people don't even somebody like my wife, like she's just finances, not her thing. She's uses Bitcoin all the time but it's not, you know, she didn't want to talk about it's not that important to her. But there's people that think finance like night and day, that still don't get it.

Preston Pysh  
Okay, so let me talk to that. So I think today, you have this wedge that has been driven between people that have an enormous amount of disposable income. And then it just flips to people that are just barely able to breakthrough, and can barely like meet their monthly expenses. And there's literally almost unlike World War One where they had the No Man Zone, like if you went out of the trench, and you were trying to, like get in a position to take the other side, there was this no man's zone where if you were in that No Man's Zone, you were killed, with indirect fire or whatever.

Preston Pysh  
I'm sorry, I'm using military, like examples here. But you're in that No Man's Land and and I think for society at large, you have this wedge that has been broken between the people that have just enormous amounts of disposable income. Who are looking at Bitcoin and they're saying, look at this thing, it has 70% volatility, like, I have no idea what the intrinsic value is, why would I buy it at 70,000, when it could go to 30,000 tomorrow? Is like, they're very simplified deduction of what it is and we know it's way more than that. But for the person who has a lot of disposable income, they're looking at it and they're saying, that's their narrative, and they're not having to do any more work because tomorrow, they're just gonna make a bunch more money. 

Preston Pysh  
And they're gonna continue to send their kids to private school and not have to worry about the stuff that the the rest of the world is struggling with. And then on the other side, you have these people who are just barely making enough to make ends meet and they're saying, I don't have time to study this Bitcoin thing. I don't have time to, and I don't have the disposable income to even allocate to it. And I think that's kind of the the dichotomy that we're kind of faced with of why it's so challenging is Bitcoiners, to orange pill or whatever adjective you want to use to describe a verb or whatever to describe what it's like to try to convince people of the point of view that you and I are seeing. So clearly, it's a function of the fiat system that has kind of like drove this wedge into there's no middle ground there.

Mike Peterson  
So do you think do you think in your lifetime, it there will be opportunity to reasonably invest in other things outside of Bitcoin? Like, do you think that I, because I'm wired to like I want to build companies. I like real estate, I want to bet you look at it all. It's like how to, it's hard to justify putting any money into it, because you're like, well, I could buy real estate and do all this work and have all these headaches. Or I could buy bitcoin, and my Fiat value is gonna go up probably three times as much as my real estate and so it doesn't make sense. So do you think that we'll ever get back to a time we're on a Bitcoin standard, and people can start making rational business decisions?

Preston Pysh  
I love this question because I know you understand me really well by that question. So I would argue today, I've already started investing in things that are other than Bitcoin. But I want to preface this video, I want to define this very clearly for people. So the only thing that I own from an investment standpoint beyond bitcoin is MicroStrategy. I only bought MicroStrategy, when the price that the common stock price was literally below the Bitcoin Treasury value of what he had, because he has a profitable company. And because I would argue, another asset that he has on his balance sheet beyond the software enterprise asset, is the speculative attack asset that will never be listed on his balance sheet. 

Preston Pysh  
And that I would argue, may actually create more economic value to shareholders then the software enterprise business, because he's able to either go into convertible debt markets, or he's able to take common stock and issue it at two times. Things that you and I cannot do, because he's a publicly traded company, and he has this government, he has a governance structure that's very unique and different than anywhere else. 

Preston Pysh  
And so for all of those reasons, I'm looking at that, and I saw it, and I was like, right now at this moment in time, because it's the common stock is below the Treasury value. This is something that could actually outperform Bitcoin. So I buy it. Now, I say all of that. And my concern is the 6102 risk that's associated with that Treasury. And so now I'm saying okay, I think it can outperform Bitcoin. How much is pretty difficult to like, come up with like a really like solid figure.

Mike Peterson  
Is trading at a pretty significant multiple right now?

Preston Pysh  
Today? Yes. Which, which for me, I look at that and I say, oh Michael is just going to take advantage that he's going to, he's going to basically issue more common stock. He's going to transmute that into Bitcoin and he's going to do all that work for me so that I don't have to sell it, go buy some bitcoin and then convert back into it the next time the price is diminished back below the Treasury. Like, I'm just like, Michael is going to take care of that. I'm pretty sure that he understands how to do that just as well, and definitely better than I do. 

Preston Pysh  
So I'm just gonna let him do his thing. So I continue to hold it in this goes back to my buffet, like buy something and to hold it forever, once you find something that you think you can hold forever and so I'm looking at MicroStrategy based on the price I bought it. I think I can hold continue to hold that. But my concern is, there's still risk that I don't know that I can properly wait to owning equity because of how concerned I am about governments 6102 in the treasury.

Mike Peterson  
For people not who don't know what that is, maybe just give a because we have a range of Yeah, new to Bitcoin are more interested in moving to El Salvador. So yeah, explain what you're talking about.

Preston Pysh  
 So, in short, I think that governments can get themselves in a situation where they realize that they're truly bankrupt, and they have to go rob somebody. And the best person, the rob, is somebody that you can go into a court system and you can ink a signature on it. And because of that signature, and because of all the employees that work for an entity and not an individual, they're going to say, oh yeah, here's the keys to these bitcoin. Take them, because I don't want to go to jail and I'm just this employee that makes two hundred thousand or one hundred thousand a year. I'm like, not going to compromise myself and my myself going to jail over something like this.

Mike Peterson  
And in the 6102 references, because that's happened in when they're have lot gold.

Preston Pysh  
That's right. In the 1930s, 33s. I think it was, that happened in the United States, it was Executive Order 6102 and so.

Mike Peterson  
That's called the switch is crazy, because I think 98% of Americans don't realize they are that the US government has done that, like in the last century. Like, was not that long. We're not talking about you know, early, early days, we're talking about like, there's plates that we know that were impacted by that.

Preston Pysh  
Two and a half of our lifetimes and that was already happened. Like, it's not very long, it's not far removed from where we're at that this has happened. So I'm looking at that and as a person that loves performing economic calculation. I'm looking at that, and I'm saying, okay, so what is a proper position size? Even though I think it's going to outperform what is the proper position side for this position size for this risk of complete annihilation of the Treasury because of some government actor that's going to step in and raid it and rob us. Even though I'm, you know, and so when I look at that and I perform that Math, which to perform that Math, if people were deeply interested in some of this nerdology. 

Preston Pysh  
You'd go into what's called The Kelly Criterion, Ed Thorpe. Super famous person wrote a book, I think it's just called The Kelly Criterion. I don't recommend this book but go use chat GPT typing Kelly Criterion, you'll learn enough. And it'll actually do the calculations for you which the calculations for the Kelly Criterion are very elements are very rudimentary, and it's not something that I would equate it to like painting a picture with like a six inch brush, like you're not in there doing any type of detailed analysis. It's very, like broad brush type calculations. 

Preston Pysh  
But when I do that and I'm looking at it, I'm saying I think anything that's 5% to 10% of my portfolio size, because of this 6102 risk, is probably an excess of proper asset allocation in the face of just owning Bitcoin itself. And so for me, I'm trying to control. Unfortunately, I did it through a derivative. I have a lot of exposure through derivatives, which doesn't make my these are good problems. Might be good problems. It doesn't make my job any easier to keep it within the five to 10% because of how it moves. 

Mike Peterson  
Yeah, no, no, I was actually everything moves much faster than I think most of us expected, including myself. So I had I would I had planned to, you could, you could buy the in the money calls on MicroStrategy and sell the like, I don't know, it was like three thousand or twenty one hundred, you know, and when MicroStrategy was like a two hundred for like half the premium. And so I was looking at I know, that seems like kind of a no brainer. But I thought I had a little more time just like, popped up. 

Preston Pysh  
And when you get into derivatives, if people aren't like intimately familiar with derivatives, once you start getting a lot of volatility into the price, it starts getting priced into the derivative of like what that volatility array looks like. And so for me, it was a lot of luck, it was so much luck. And I mean I'll be the first person to say that like, it the price collapse quite a bit, it was bouncing around kind of at the Treasury value a slight premium here and there, it would come down and do a discount. But the volatility wasn't bad relative to like what we've seen in the last three months. 

Preston Pysh  
But now that those now that that volatility got in there, and now everybody that's a derivatives trader, and is using the Black Scholes model on all these other models, which is also another Ed Thorpe thing. They start pricing that all in there and now you got to, now you got to properly value a derivative with all of this volatility into it and it's like, I got lucky. You know, I just, I just put it out. I just got very lucky and very thankful that I had that opportunity. 

Mike Peterson  
When those things come, it does. It does make it a little more like, hey, even even if that does happen the you know, the the balance of the upside versus potential downside it's in your favor. 

Preston Pysh  
So yeah, some people that are looking at it now, I would just caution them because you're exactly right. Like, generically we'll just say that the common stock price is trading at 2x the Treasury. It's like, well I don't know if it's going to three. I don't know if it's going to, I don't know if it's going to 10, I don't know if it's going back to point 5. And so, I just kind of I know I got a really good basis. So I just kind of sit there and I'm gonna let Michael do his thing. And I don't know if it's, I don't know if it's prudent for other people to to mimic that trade right now base on the premium. Yeah, who knows.

Mike Peterson  
And those things can bounce all around as my wife can attest, because I had her all of her retirement money in GBTC and so she was like.What is going on? Bitcoins only down 50%. But this is down like 75. Like, it'll come back, it'll come back and at that time it was so you know, that was early, when we put it in, it was hard. You know, we looked at the self directed IRA, but it was like, work and all that stuff. So I, now when I see people going into ETFs I'm like, you know obviously those are a little bit different because they're gonna hold that value. But like, you're saying, you're, you're, you still have that risk, and you're not being compensated for. You have that risk that they can confiscate that but you're not, you don't have any upside on it like you could potentially have with MicroStrategy.

Preston Pysh  
I would assign a very similar portfolio weighting to the ETFs, as like what I have for the MicroStrategy. Like, and I think a lot of people would kind of get a little snarky with the numbers that I'm using and go, go use your own numbers use your own risk discounts or whatever. But I really think that anything that's like five to 10% in an ETF versus Spot, that self custody Spot, I think is egregious. But hey, go do your own Math, figure out your own equations and good luck. But those are mine, that's my Math.

Mike Peterson  
So what's your opinion on the ETFs? And whether they're a good thing for Bitcoin a bad thing for Bitcoin? I have my own opinions. But um.

Preston Pysh  
Yeah. It's interesting because like, when I was talking and interviewing Michael on stage in Madeira, he was very favorable to it and I guess for me I'm quite concerned about it personally. And I'm not trying to sound like a fear monger. I really don't, because I really tried to look at the world from a very optimistic lens. But my concern is more on the front of I think governments, especially developed nation, state governments are completely inept. And I think a lot of the people running that are running the the major committees that would make the decisions on preventing what's about to happen are totally clueless. 

Preston Pysh  
And yeah, just I don't think they're properly preparing for what's happening and I think for them to properly prepare for what's happening they have to be like, at least taking 1% of all Treasury Issuance, and having some type of compartmentalised treasury of Bitcoin off to the side, at least 1% today. What's going to get really weird is like, if the price goes to five hundred thousand, they're probably going to need about a 10% of all Treasury Issuance in Bitcoin set aside. And the reason I say set aside is because if I was at the Treasury today, and I had full control to try to manage all of this, me coming out and saying, we were now on a Bitcoin standard. 

Preston Pysh  
Everything's going to be backed by 1% Bitcoin would probably wreak havoc as if I was that the US or any like Europe or wherever. If I said that, and I came out and made that proclamation, I think you literally might melt down trade. I think they're that volatile and precarious, that you might melt down Treasury markets and auctions and all of that. So they almost have to mask and hide that, that they have figured it out. I mean, I would just say that them taking the Mt. Gox coins and putting them on Coinbase this week, how many billions was that? That to me, is a signpost that they don't understand what's happening.

Mike Peterson  
Is that Mt. Gox coins?

Preston Pysh  
Oh I'm sorry, Thank you. So Silk Road coins going to Coinbase is just another signpost that they are absolutely clueless.

Preston Pysh  
It's like you have this gift that was given to you. It's not going to cause any, like new cycles or anything they just hold it, but instead.

Preston Pysh  
Well, they got to act all they got to do is just continue to act clueless, which is shouldn't be hard. But that, for me was a very major signpost that they don't understand what's happening, that they're not doing this compartmentalized secret like Treasury, Bond Issuance, backing of like hard assets. And because of all of that, because of all of that, I'm assigning a higher risk to the 6102 attack on the Treasury of ETFs or anybody that could get the pen stroke. I don't want to go to jail memo from the from the government for anybody that has a honeypot.

Mike Peterson  
I think that the way that the governor I reacted to COVID. Not not even talking about the actual COVID health side, but the financial side in the US. For me, it was very eye opening, I have a business in the US and in the food industry and it was, you know, so crazy how you saw the shift of the government like making things that impact your business negatively in one way, and then like throwing money at people who try to balance it out, and the way that they will do it. So this will, this will blow you away and this was my one little peak in this small little restaurant industry. We're not talking defense industry or other things where I'm sure it's more egregious, but they pass this bill, the restaurant RRF restaurant restoration fund. 

Mike Peterson  
And their their logic was something that I think the restaurant lobby was lobbying for and they're like. Hey, you forced all these restaurants are closed down they're gonna go out of business. You guys need to do something for them, but they're so clueless that what they did, they said, Okay we're gonna, we're gonna have this fun, it was like $30 billion dollars, which is you know, insane. That's like, you know, six times the, you know, six years of tax revenue for the whole government of El Salvador. And they said, we're going to look, we're going to have restaurants be able to apply for this, and you take your 2019 sales versus your 2020 sales. 

Mike Peterson  
And we will make up for 100% of the difference. So you're talking to industry that works on 10% profit margins. Now, all of a sudden, you're giving them 100%. So I know people in my industry because it was a seasonal thing  a lot of them didn't operate at all. And so they had like 3 million in sales in 2019. And in 2020, they had virtually no expenses and the government cut them a check for $3 million dollars, which they're on.

Preston Pysh  
Hold on, so it was this based off of the revenue or the net income?

Mike Peterson  
That was offered on the revenue cannot. 

Preston Pysh  
So if your 10%, basically, you made money for 10? 

Mike Peterson  
Oh, yes. They were and even beyond that, because this is what they this was the kicker. They also I mean, genius in the restaurant, you know, whoever their lobbyists was, they're like, well, we should make this tax free too, because we can't tax them on that. That would be, so I know people that you know we're doing doing like two to 3 million a year and maybe maybe netting off that like a hundred ten for two hundred thousand. And then they got this $2 million dollar payday tax free and you're like, okay.

Preston Pysh  
Just sell the businesses? 

Mike Peterson  
Well, that's what you saw. A lot of them just sold their businesses got out the other ones, you know, bought all new equipment and it was it was had a hugely negative impact because it was like half the industry got it and half didn't. So you then you have the ones who didn't get it are now having to compete with these people that have all new equipment. And they're not worrying about what they spend because they got this windfall. So I mean, that was for me, it was like doesn't make sense to just run a functional business anymore. 

Mike Peterson  
Like these people have been struggling all their lives. Now got this windfall that was that was one more little. Yeah. So one little industry that I only know of because industry that I was in. But this, you multiply this by all these different things. And so even with the pay check, was the PPP loans patriarch. Even those they said okay well, we're gonna make those tax free. But it was, it didn't make any sense to make them tax free, because you were basically paying all their pay their payroll for them. 

Mike Peterson  
And then they're somehow well, it wouldn't be fair to charge them taxes like, well you already gave them free money. And now you're gonna it was all you just realized that people who make our laws and run things, they don't understand how businesses work and so they're so easily, like, manipulated and tricked into doing things and that's taxpayer money. So but we just print more and more of it. 

Preston Pysh  
So it's literally it's insane.

Mike Peterson  
That for me, it was like, okay it's over, it's done. This has become so off the charts that it doesn't make sense for people to work hard and run good businesses anymore. The objective for most people is going to be just to get as much government money as they can and that really excelerates.

Preston Pysh  
Let me pull on the thread of this just to kind of like, lay it out for people. So, normally if let's say the business that you just described in the restaurant business, let's say they were banging out 3 million on revenue, which means let's just use 10%. They're making three hundred thousand a year. Okay, that business to make 3 million in retained earnings, tax free. So now you're putting another you know, 20% out of the three hundred thousand. So now you're decorating that another 60k, but let's just let's just ignore the tax because the Math gets really simpler if we do. But they would have to stay in business for 10 years to make $3 million dollars to net $3 million dollars. They'd have to all those employees, all that management for a decade.

Mike Peterson  
For most of them that was you know, like most small businesses, it's really their salary that they're making. They're not, that  what they make is really paying for their living expenses. So they'd never be able to save up. 

Preston Pysh  
They wouldn't even be able to say because they're just paying for their lavish lifestyle of the three hundred thousand. They're used to a lifestyle of three hundred thousand a year. Yeah, but let's say let's just say they're able to net it, which they're totally not, okay. My point where I'm going with this is, if all of a sudden you just literally had $3 million dollar show up into your cash account, which would have at least taken you at. Assuming you have no expenses, through 10 years to accumulate. Now you're going out and what are you doing? You're consuming, you're consuming at a pace.

Mike Peterson  
That's why we have inflation.

Preston Pysh  
That's right, you're consuming at a pace that is unprecedented. You're consuming energy, like if you go far enough downstream, what is it that you're actually consuming, you're consuming energy. So like, all these ESG policies, and everybody's consuming too much energy? Well, I wonder why we've literally keystrokes all of these units into this system we've literally jammed it down the throats of everybody. Then we're acting like they're not going to go out there and consume at a breakneck pace. And it just, it just speaks to why people are looking at the banks. They're looking at the policymakers, and they're in there saying, why is everybody jamming this ESG, like reduction in energy consumption down our throats? Well, it's because you're jamming the monetary made up paper keystroke units down our throat and people are just doing what they do. They're going out and consuming with it, because they had a windfall.

Mike Peterson  
And it wasn't just like, I know a guy at a construction company, and they weren't really impacted, but they got like a million dollars in PPP in it. That PPP money just went directly to the bottom line of the business owners like the most the coat. The COVID stimulus checks were nothing compared to the amount of money that went out to business during that time. And those people just went out and bought new cars and bought new homes. 

Preston Pysh  
Straight to your point, like I'm acting like they're going to net 300k and they're not spending it. But the reality is that anybody who's had a 300k net income kind of coming through the door, they've got a big old house, they've got fancy cars, they've got all these things, and they're consuming. Let's just say they're reasonable, they're consuming half of that or maybe 200k of that, and they're putting away the other hundred. And so, now it's not 10 years, it's 30 years for them the net the amount that just hit their cash account. We're being like kind, we're being conservative with some of these numbers. This probably 30 years.

Mike Peterson  
Well, most of them probably never would have accumulated but then that's paid for by taxpayer money. So then you have the government creating winners and losers. Which is why minimum government is always best but for me, like it was like mind blowing, like, okay, we're, there's no coming back from this. And once they get a taste for that, it used to be like we'll do a billion was like iRacing. Now it's like, oh, let's do a couple trillion and you know the next time there's something that's gonna be, I mean really it's gonna be face melting.

Preston Pysh  
Cover everybody's college expense. I mean, why not? Like, hey, those are all votes. And boy has the vote turned into the stimulus. It's hand in hand and this is where it all comes off the rails, right? And is it happening this coming cycle? I don't know but let me tell you like the trend, and what's becoming culturally acceptable is just coming off the rails like totally coming off.

Mike Peterson  
Well I thought, I'm like okay, this basically this showed that MMT is just crazy. But that's not the lesson that the people in government took from this. The lesson they took was, oh MMT works we just have to slow it down for a little bit now we can ramp it up again when we want to.

Preston Pysh  
I think they looked at the I think they looked at the market performance. And like anybody who was going through March 2020, like I'm looking at the the supply demand, like dynamics happening out in commodities and I'm looking at this. I'm saying, Dear God, this is gonna get disgusting into like equities and everything else. And I mean, when they came with the firehose that they came with and then you watch the equity market bid in such a fashion. I mean, Mike, it wasn't even thirty days it was, thirty to sixty days. We were making new all time highs, and then we were 100% above that. 

Preston Pysh  
I don't know, I don't remember the exact Math on like how high it got, within ninety days or a hundred twenty days. It was quick and I think all of them, I think all these policymakers were looking at the speed at which they refladed the equity markets. Which then was the which in their mind they're looking at it and they're saying, oh, my God all these capital gains tax. They're looking at it as revenue on to their top line from an income tax standpoint. They're saying, oh,wow, look at that like, we got this under control. Like, we just needed to do another one of those. 

Preston Pysh  
Well, what has been the hell out of equities? We'll make all this money and like, then we don't have any issues from a from a deficit standpoint. And so people looking at the markets right now you hear all these people that are doom and gloomers are saying, oh, yeah this is like going to be 1931 like all over again. When equity markets and I'm saying, you're not paying attention to the recent history and all these people that are still in office and what they learned, which is, the only way we can keep this solvent is we need to bid the living hell out of the equity market. And there's no way we can let this thing start to melt down because we need all the tax revenues choice. 

Mike Peterson  
There's no choice. 

Preston Pysh  
There's no absolutely no choice. 

Mike Peterson  
Yeah, it's, I mean obviously at some point, it all falls apart. But yes, I'm sure you know, it's like it always lasts much longer than I think it can and so that's what I was hoping. Like, oh, well it's, you know, it's the end of the world like, I don't know they seem to be pretty good at kicking the can down the road. Eventually, we'll have to pay the piper but I don't know if it's five years, ten years? Or what would you say is how long do you keep this going.

Preston Pysh  
So this is what I would say to that person, right? Because what they're trying to do is almost to force you to live into their reality of not being a bitcoiner. And in to say, well you know it just keeps going on forever and ever. But what I would say back to force them to see the world through my lens as a Bitcoiner is, well, my net worth just goes up 50% every year. And so like, I don't know when it's going to happen and I don't really care when it happens. Because like, when you're compounding money in your net worth and I'm being conservative with 50%.

Mike Peterson  
Yeah, I think historically been like 100%.

Preston Pysh  
It can be in excess of 100% annualized but if I'm being really conservative, like I'm looking at like a 40 to 50% compounded annual growth rate. I'm saying, it could go on for another 10 years, it doesn't really matter because like, take my net will take your net worth, they can take anybody's net worth compounded at 50% for 10 years. And tell me if that person's concerned about when this is going to happen? Let me tell you, they're not too concerned. So I would flip the question because I think a lot of times when you get into like financial investing, it's people that think that they need to predict the future. 

Preston Pysh  
And you don't need to do that at all, you just need to look at your array of potential opportunities, and make an informed decision on what's giving you the best return. Have a very informed risk analysis on on that selection. And then you don't have to predict anything, you can just sit back and enjoy and reap the rewards of that thing that hopefully you perform proper and in thoughtful economic calculation. And if you did, you don't have to worry about predicting the future. You just made a very informed decision at that spot in time that was better than everything else. And so, like what's giving you better than a 50% return right now? I don't know. I haven't found anything like other than like Bitcoin companies that are early stage seed may be right.

Mike Peterson  
Sell to the build out to Bitcoin so. Have you ever sat down? I mean coming from the the financial planning aspect of it you know, the, whether it's the 3% rule, or the 4% rule. They talk about John, have you ever sat down to calculate what that would be in Bitcoin with the returns that we expect? And how much less people would actually need to have saved for retirement in order to implement that rule? If they were living on a Bitcoin standard? 

Preston Pysh  
I would just tell people like the really simple Math, we're at like 70,000ish, like right now maybe it's slightly under that, but just just as a ballpark. If you think like the terminal value of Bitcoin is between five to ten million and we've been saying this metric for quite a few years. So it might actually even be more than that because of the Fiat debasement that's happened since that talking point really kind of became popular. But, you you need about a 1% allocation to Bitcoin one to 2% allocation. The Bitcoin of whatever your net worth is, so if your net worth let's say your net worth is $100,000 dollars. You need about a thousand to $2,000 dollar worth of Bitcoin today at the $70,000 dollar price.

Preston Pysh  
In my opinion to protect that $100,000 dollars worth of buying power. Just as this simply and matter of fact is you can kind of look at it. Any multiple above that would literally multiply that net worth. So let's just say it's 1%, let's say you have $1,000 dollars in Bitcoin and you have a net worth of a hundred  thousand. If you have $2,000 dollars of Bitcoin, and this is playing out in the direction that we think it is. That is representing the buying power of $200,000. And so what's going to be hard is when the price goes to levels, because when bitcoins a five hundred thousand. 

Preston Pysh  
I think you need 10x the position size, and boy is that going to be really, really hard because in most people's heads that are still living in the Fiat world they're looking at that and they're saying, all right now it's five hundred thousand. It could go down to fifty or ten or five, and there's so much risk at five hundred thousand. And it's almost becoming harder and harder for somebody that's deeply ingrained in the Fiat system to make the leap, definitely to have the proper positioning size to protect their net worth. It's

Mike Peterson  
It's almost like the flip side they say most people's the thing they have the hardest time understanding is the risk of inflation. Like they're out they think like keeping money cash in the bank is safe but that's the most unsafe thing because inflation will just eat it away. Bitcoins like the the flip side of that they think the risk is being in Bitcoin, but the risk is being being out of being Bitcoin. So, shifting things that to here in El Salvador, I'm curious as to what are your thoughts on on El Salvador's adopting Bitcoin as legal tender, where do you see this going on The Global Game Theory? What type of countries do you think will be next and how do you what role do you think that will play in where Bitcoin winds up?

Preston Pysh  
So, I think one of the one of the most interesting things and I'm going to talk about sailor a little bit but I'm talking about that in as an example of what's happening here in El Salvador. So, when Michael put Bitcoin on his balance sheet. He didn't do it in a fashion where, like you looked at his marketable securities on his balance sheet and he put 10% of it into Bitcoin. And if he would have done that, it would have been so much less demonstrative for other companies to understand what was happening. But because he literally took all of it, and he was like, literally my entire $500 million dollars of retained earnings unplowing all of it into Bitcoin instead of Apple stock and Microsoft and all these other high performing equities. 

Preston Pysh  
He put on this literally this clinic, for anybody in, that's running a business as to what the real impact of putting Bitcoin on your balance sheet is. You have the exact same thing happening at a nation state level with Ukelele in El Salvador. Where he has, he literally given the middle finger to the IMF, The World Bank, and all these string pullers have the legacy system from a nation state level. And he's saying, you know what, we're just going to do things differently down here. 

Preston Pysh  
And although it might not be like super in your face, like right out of the gate because when you're developing nationsand you're doing infrastructure development and all these types of things. It's a longer timeframe than like, what's in your face at a corporate level, like or an individual level. I mean, it's it's just individual level it's so noticeable corporate level it's very noticeable nation state level. It's kind of noticeable, so he's dealing with with that just because it's takes a little bit of time. But he has leaned into it very hard. 

Mike Peterson  
I thought, just most politicians when things don't go their way right away they back away. He doubled down.

Preston Pysh  
He did not, he doubled down, and because he doubled down, he's putting on he's putting on a clinic from the sovereign level. And I think that, I'm very excited that he's going to continue to be around for longer because it's going to help other sovereigns really kind of see the power of what's going to play out. I you know, I think by the time we get into summer of twenty five, oh my god, it's going to be similar.

Mike Peterson  
There's got to be other countries right now that are stocking. 

Preston Pysh  
No doubt.

Mike Peterson  
But they don't want people to know because they know that it'll shoot the price up.

Preston Pysh  
Yeah. Well, and I think that's the other challenge too, is like he has put it on full display he has let everybody in the world know. He has taken a lot of risk by letting the whole world know what he's doing. Especially from like, The IMF and World Bank standpoint and because he has done it in such a public fashion, I think it has put many leaders in the world on on notice. And I think he needs to be applauded. I think that you know, as a former military leader and somebody who has studied leadership a lot, you can lead by two ways. You can lead through fear by scaring the hell out of your people, where you can lead through inspiration. 

Preston Pysh  
And when I, when I look at Kaylee and I look at sailor and many others in the space. They have truly went down this path of leading through inspiration and showing people what is possible with a positive outlook in a positive spin as opposed to, if you don't take this IMF loan and I'm gonna jam this thing down your throat and you're gonna have this monocrop inside your country, and it's going to every single person in your country is going to serve this much bigger world purpose. 

Preston Pysh  
Because if you don't, and you default on this, we're going to wreck your world, which is basically the IMF and World Bank playbook. Because you have a leader that's choosing the lead through inspiration. I think there's other people that are taking note and I think that in the long run. I think it's just human nature, I think it's a law of the universe that the ones that actually do choose to lead through inspiration are the ones that in the long run are the true String Pillars of society in the world.

Mike Peterson  
So did you see his CPAC speech?

Preston Pysh  
I didn't hear it, but I heard a lot of comments of just like how he crushed it.

Mike Peterson  
He absolutely crushed it. That my favorite part was he preaching to the you know you would think he's preaching to the choir. He's like, no you guys don't understand you complain about taxes, your taxes aren't even really paying for all of this. You're printing this, you are destroying your economy to live at this level. Even even if you raise taxes significantly, you still wouldn't cover what you guys are spending. You guys are focusing on the wrong thing. And I think even in that audience, which was mostly a sympathetic audience they were like, taken aback of. What do you mean we're not paying for it? It's like, yeah, no, you're printing it.

Preston Pysh  
I would and I would say not, because I didn't hear the speech. But based on what you just said, if you even go further upstream from that comment, it's what real value that society desperately needs, is being paid for through that taxation or debasement of the currency. And when you, when you really drill down into that, what you're gonna find is they spend it on a bunch of crap.

Mike Peterson  
Like the programs I was telling you. 

Preston Pysh  
The programs you were just talking about. It's a total misallocation of spending because at the core, there's not something grounded in economic reality and what nature it has to deal with. If you're a plant, you can't just create more energy packets. I mean, in humans it's ATP, I should know what it is for plants. But for like a human, if you could just like create more ATP without the mitochondria after doing the work by breathing more and eating nutrients to like to construct the ATP. 

Preston Pysh  
Well, then you could become a god here on the earth because you could just run through walls. You'd have so much energy and whatever, right? But we have to, nature deals with physical reality and it deals with it by by having scarce things breathing, our size, like we're dealing, we're physically dealing with reality. And these countries that are just printing in keystroke, in units, to then hand out to society is not dealing with with reality or nature. They're making it up and so that's a path that might work in the short term but with enough time, we'll have to deal with reality.

Mike Peterson  
And you look at you go back centuries, I mean, that's it always happens. You see this repeat, repeat. And we for some reason, think it's going to be different this time, but.

Preston Pysh  
It will not.

Mike Peterson  
So back to something that really my passion and seeing the way Bitcoin impacts people on the ground. Especially people that have been excluded from the financial system. I don't think most Americans realize the damage that has been done to the poor in the world by the KYC, AML Laws that are pushed by the US on the rest of the world. And so that's our focus here is the the Bitcoin circular economies. 

Mike Peterson  
I'm curious just as to what your take is we've seen these spring up in other places, how much you think about that or what you You think what role you think that plays in protecting Bitcoin as freedom money. And I want to talk a little bit about a recent, first I want to get your opinion but on a recent thing that that's really scared the crap out of me that I've seen where I think the direction that governments are gonna go to try to limit Bitcoin but I'm curious to you guys thought your thought on the coin circular economy.

Preston Pysh  
So when we when we first understand why are they so hell bent on KYC, AML all this type of thing. When you look at how the legacy system is taxed, it's tax because they're able to peered very deeply into the back and rails of of every type of transaction, high dollar transaction, even small dollar or small, small denomination transactions. And because they're looking at that they're looking, let's say you have a restaurant business and the IRS is just able to peer into everything that hits your cash account. They know who paid you they know every single vendor and they're saying, all right well, we're looking at this. It kind looks like his inflows are $3 million dollars. 

Preston Pysh  
It looks like his outflows are $2 million dollars. Looks like he might have, in these would be amazing numbers for a restaurant. But it looks like he netted a million at for a 33% margin. So that's what you know, if we're not receiving a check for to two hundred thousand this year. Well, then we need to audit this person because based on the flows that we're peering into the back end rails, this is what it should be. That's the legacy system through and through and so if we would if if we stop and we say, okay that's how this system works, and we say, well, how would a Bitcoin system work? 

Preston Pysh  
Considering you can't peer into those back end rails Well, you can still raise tax revenues as a government, you just have to do it on a sales basis. So, if you have $3 million dollars that come through, because we we know what your address is, we know what that looks like, we know that the number should be somewhere in this ballpark because most most restaurants and I guess I'm going to change the scenario a little bit. Most restaurants, at best are banging out 10% margin based off of the top line that's coming through. 

Preston Pysh  
So if you made you know, 300 million, or 3 million, you made 3 million for the year, we're looking at like a $300,000 dollar a net for that business. And so we think that the tax revenues should be 20% of that six hundred sixty thousand, that's what the IRS would be looking at. So we have this change in dichotomy of this new system being taxed very differently. And unfortunately, you have all these bureaucrats that a don't even remotely understand Bitcoinat all. They definitely don't understand the solution of what to migrate to from a tax standpoint because you can't peer into the back end rails of of the system anymore.

Preston Pysh  
And because of that, what they are going to do is they're going to look at the legacy system and say. We need more of these protocols that we had to be able to peer into the back end rails and anything that looks like it's going to jeopardize that we need to try to kill it with everything we've got. And so you're going to have all these attacks on Bitcoin, you're gonna have all these attacks on a sales based tax structure, because it scares the hell out of them that they're not going to be able to peer into the back rails. 

Preston Pysh  
And so what do I expect moving forward, I fully expect and it doesn't mean it's going to be successful, it's not going to be successful. But it doesn't mean that that's not what they're going to move to next and what they're going to double down on which is we need more KYC we need more money transmitter laws we need. I wrote this whole this whole FinCEN proposal response, rebuttal or whatever you want to call it. 

Preston Pysh  
And I mean, Mike the amount of legal horsepower that went into them writing this proposal that's gonna get approved. My response is more for on the other side after we you know, Bitcoin companies and other people are hiring litigators to come in and defend themselves against the the approval of this policy. What really just difficult and just like really frustrating is, I think it's only going to get worse, and I think they're gonna double down on it. I think they're just gonna continue to inundate the entire system, which just forces people to want Bitcoin more, but.

Mike Peterson  
Yeah, well, that's why I feel like it's so important that we have people that start opting out of the system that are doing operating only in Bitcoin that are not needing the on ramps and off ramps, because those are the choke points. And we had a recent example of this which really scared the crap out of me because I think it's the direction that they're going to go using soft power is we had somebody that was trying to buy a house. I wasn't involved in this, but I just heard secondhand there was buying a home down here for several $100,000 dollars. They wanted to pay in Bitcoin and the seller didn't want to receive Bitcoin. 

Mike Peterson  
They're an old couple that didn't really know, they wanted money in their their bank account here and so there's a few different Bitcoin companies here that will serve as intermediaries for a fee. And so they went to do the transaction, the guy had bought this Bitcoin from an exchange in Canada goes to do the transaction. And the intermediate said, well, I don't know if it was chain analysis or whoever they're using, saying we can't accept this because prior to it being in the exchange 90% of these YouTube TXOs were at this gambling site, a illegal gambling site. 

Mike Peterson  
So now, this is dirty Bitcoin. So this guy bought Bitcoin from a regulated exchange, and now is being told that his Bitcoins dirty and he can't use it, and this is how I think they're going to push people into the ETFs into the only use your custodial solutions because if you don't, you might get bad counterfeit tainted whatever Bitcoin. And and if we, as Bitcoiners allow this to happen, where there's two systems where there's good Bitcoin and bad Bitcoin, then they've won.

Preston Pysh  
I think that, so I love love this, where I what I think this is a function of his where we're at in the timeline. So, as as this continues to play out, when we get further down the timeline. What you're not going to have is the couple that saying, Yes, I want the Fiat. That's what's going to change because where this is going is the Fiat is going to be the basing itself at such a breakneck pace in the face of Bitcoin. That instead of that conversion having to take place, they're just gonna say, here's our, here's our Wallet address. Of course, I don't want whatever the local currency is, that's like asinine. Like who the hell would want that right? 

Preston Pysh  
And because that change in the demand of the seller, is why I don't think that policies. But between now and then especially where we're at in the in the career in the adoption curve, to me that story makes total sense. It doesn't surprise me at all. It doesn't surprise me that the gatekeepers think that they're winning in this, because what's what's coming next is CBDCs, which is in there in the government's mind and be like, oh yeah, we really got them now they really have to play our game. But what they're, but what's not being discussed, and what they don't understand is the amount of impairment offset that they're gonna have to do when fixed income continues to get obliterated. 

Preston Pysh  
The amount of units they have to add into the CBDC and then issue out to people that have done no work. Like the restaurant scenario that you described earlier, is going to be so unbound and those units are going to be circulating through the entire system. And they're gonna be so worthless relative to this other thing called Bitcoin. That it's going to reshape the mindset of the person who's saying, of course, I don't want that as payment, That's idiot money, that's clown that those are those are coupons, I don't want to receive coupons that are going to be worth half as much tomorrow. 

Preston Pysh  
And so, that's what we have going for us that I think if a person was looking at it through the lens today, there's they're saying that's really scary. That's something that is is a threat and it is on on the adoption curve. It might slow down the adoption.

Mike Peterson  
It's gonna be a headache for a lot.

Preston Pysh  
I don't want to say that it's not going to be a headache, because it is going to be a headache. And it may slow down the adoption curve.

Mike Peterson  
But I guess I'm going back, I just want to make sure we don't get the majority of Bitcoin locked up in the ETFs in this world where it's not circulating. And I think that's where the danger is and that that's my biggest against the ETF so.

Preston Pysh  
So on that point, when we look at where the ETFs are today, I want to say that all of them combined. I shouldn't know this number and I don't know this number but I know it's more than what MicroStrategy has, which is 1%. So they're they're in excess of 1%. I don't think they're over 2%, maybe? 

Mike Peterson  
They might be now.

Preston Pysh  
Two or 3% let's say tops, for them to go from 2 or 3% to 5%. Okay, which is twice as much. The Bitcoin price doesn't go to a hundred fourty thousand. 

Mike Peterson  
Because that's five hundred thousand.

Preston Pysh  
That's right. Now, let's play it even further. Let's say we double it from there and we say they have now 10%. Do you think that it's a million? Hell no, and I don't know what the Math is, but I do know one thing. The Math is not linear, it is parabolic and because it's parabolic, it is going to limit the amount of percentage that the ETFs actually capture in the overall amount of coins outstanding. And so, in this is a function of nature, this is how nature functions. If something gets super desirable and there's a there's a fight over the scarcity of things. That truly fit are the only ones that can acquire it. 

Preston Pysh  
And there might only be a couple of them that are that fit to be able to acquire such a scarce thing. And so that's what's going to put a cap on the threat of ETFs acquiring too much market share. And the best thing we have are these crazy psychopathic that are squatting on tens of thousands of coins that are living in a sleeping bag. That you know have the Michael Saylor video playing with no furniture in their house. That is a really profound thing that if you're listening to this from Wall Street, you don't even understand what I just said because it's a very like amenable. Like, you know very I don't even know, I'm only you know people that are deep into this understand exactly what I'm saying. It's very real.

Mike Peterson  
Like, I'm still short Bitcoin, I still have a $5,000 dollar car. Just rrite that down. 

Preston Pysh  
The people that have the most Bitcoin in the space are the people that look like vagrants in the back of the room.

Mike Peterson  
Though, that's what I love one thing about Bitcoin conferences, you can wear whatever you want. My wife is like the people in suits, you know, those are the people that are there because they have to be there. The people that look homeless, they're the ones they have all the Bitcoins by everybody else out. 

Preston Pysh  
That's right, as you don't know their name they're squatting on. Yeah. 

Mike Peterson  
Well, I think that's an optimistic point to leave on the fact that the ETFs, just like you were saying. It'd be hard for them to really cornered the market to do a hunch brother, you know, type things.

Preston Pysh  
The people who have exposure to them, it goes back to that sizing, I really think the sizing should be pretty minimal. 

Mike Peterson  
They really should just hold your own keys. That's what we want people to be doing. We're obviously, people know that you have an amazing podcast and truly I love your podcast. There's a ton of podcasts out there and I don't know for some reason yours is the one I'm always like attracted to. I love the way you like delve into things and so it's an honor for me to have you here on our podcast. But make sure people know where to find you on that. Is it multiple places?

Preston Pysh  
So the feed is we study billionaires, the Bitcoin show that I do comes out every Wednesday, and I'm very active on Twitter or whatever name you want to call it, and obviously on noster as well. Yeah, just my first and last name Preston Pysh.

Mike Peterson  
So just curious, just in closing. Where do you see yourself like 10 years from now? Like, is this, like we still become in the Bitcoin conference? I said, because I'm asking myself, my wife asked me like, how long are we going to do this for? And you see people in Bitcoin space, they kind of come in and come out and you know, they have Bitcoin and they're just kind of doing their own thing. Do you see yourself here for a while still?

Preston Pysh  
I don't know man, that's a question I'm very, and I think people who may be listened to me might think that I make these predictions or whatever. But I'm very, I like to think that I'm very grounded in today and just like looking at all of the array of decisions that I have right now. And I'm just trying to select the best decision out of like, what I'm dealing with today. And for me, when I'm looking at a Bitcoin world, especially in the face of like all this AI stuff that's happening, and where I think this is all going. 

Preston Pysh  
I have no idea where I'm at in 10 years. I just the thing that I like, inherently, I just want to try to create value for other people.  I want to help educate. Education is like one of my core passions and I'll probably be doing something in that realm of education. I really enjoy the VC stuff that I'm doing with ego death. It comes to all the valuation and just like I'm working in a space that I'm super deeply passionate about but.

Mike Peterson  
That was one question I had when I posted on Twitter what to ask you, if it's me wanted me to ask Harrison, a good friend of mine. Said, when to ask if you started looking at companies in El Salvador yet and finding any word here. 

Preston Pysh  
We are wide open to literally any type of company worldwide. From the from the early stage to Series A investments with ego death.

Mike Peterson  
I love the name by the way. 

Preston Pysh  
Thank you, yeah. I didn't come is Andy Pitt, Nico and Jeff that really kind of, they briefed me on. Like, hey we want to go over the name and the branding and stuff and they told me the name and I was like. I love that  but anyway I just, I think that we're just really open to any type of jurisdiction. Now, obviously, we're looking at companies that we think might have a lot of risk based on where they have incorporated. And El Salvador comes up in conversations all the time. We have not made an investment to date, but it wouldn't surprise me in the least bit if there was a company that we did invest that was based in El Salvador.

Mike Peterson  
Hopefully, you make some of those connections. 

Preston Pysh  
Yes, yes. 

Mike Peterson  
Well, I'll let you get back out there to the fun, but next time you got to bring your wife and spend some time in El Zonte. 

Preston Pysh  
She would love it. 

Mike Peterson  
It's a beautiful, just relaxing place to be. 

Preston Pysh  
She would love it. 

Mike Peterson  
All right. Thank you Pres. 

Preston Pysh  
Thank you Mike.