How Bitcoin Will Help Jamaica Abolish Bank Slavery Like El Salvador Did | Dread

Live from Bitcoin Beach in El Zonte, El Salvador, we turn our focus to the Caribbean, specifically Jamaica with our guest affectionately known as Dread. He shares his knowledge about how to leverage Bitcoin to handle economic disparities and the banking restrictions of his country.

In Jamaica, a great number of the population is living in poverty and the wealthy minority remains detached from the struggles of the bigger population. With the limitations of the Jamaican banking system where they can’t use their cards internationally or in e-commerce, Bitcoin is the best alternative - and a necessity for financial inclusions.

Dread started his Bitcoin journey with skepticism before becoming immersed in the Bitcoin community. He then recognized that more than just the potential of making money, as a decentralized currency, it can empower people and societies, especially in countries like Jamaica where there is a lack of banking system infrastructure. He became a forefront promoter of Bitcoin in Jamaica.

Knowing the financial challenges in the Caribbean, his project, a Bitcoin wallet called Flash aims to help facilitate easy access to Bitcoin for the economic activities in the area. He shares the technical background of Flash Wallet and how these features can improve financial transactions in the Caribbean and enable a circular economic flow.
Dread points out there is a need to build trust with the community leaders who will facilitate Bitcoin adoption because people are hesitant to accept how others handle a technology that they have yet to understand.

Bitcoin is proving to be a powerful tool in improving economies through decentralized finance and Dread knows it’s his mission to increase people’s knowledge about Bitcoin. 
Listen to the full episode to learn how Dread takes on this challenge, from sharing his technical know-how, his project the Flash wallet, and his hopes for better financial inclusion for the people of Jamaica.

Contact Dread
dread@islandbitcoin.com
https://github.com/LNFlash

Follow Dread on Nostr: 
npub1qqqqqq0u2gj96tdfvqymdqn739k4s0h9rzdwyegfmalv28j7a5ssh5ntu2

Learn more about Flash Wallet here:
https://github.com/LNFlash
http://onelovebitcoin.com/
https://onelovebitcoin.simplecast.com/

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Live From Bitcoin Beach

Transcript

Dread  
You know, and then you have this smaller class of Jamaicans white collar, expats, etc, living on a much higher standard. And there's a huge gap in between two tiered society a very two tiered society, unfortunately, and the higher tier, of course, are using the banks though, they're willing to pay the fees. But even them, even that higher tier society, if they're not relying on an American bank, then the debit cards that you use in Jamaica cannot be used to buy anything on Amazon. You cannot use the Visa Card to pay your Netflix bill. Those Visa cards MasterCard, do not work outside of Jamaican institutions and Jamaican banks. So we're cut off from the global e-commerce world. And the only way that they can get access to an even the rich people is to either have an American bank and have a debit card that you can use in America or Bitcoin.

Mike Peterson  
Dread, last time we were doing a podcast, the roles were reversed. You were interviewing me for your podcast. I'm glad that we finally got you in here to do this.

Dread  
It's my honor.

Mike Peterson  
I was thinking today, the first time that I met you. You rolled up to Garten hotel. We were there. Peter McCormick was there. I was a big table of us and I'd never met you and he rolled in. And across the room, he just shouted like, hey, are you guys Bitcoiners? And this was before like, there was really any Bitcoiners in El Salvador. It was like very early days. And so we all like looked at each other.

Dread  
I had no idea you guys were even gonna be there.I just you know who this guy is. But then you came and joined this and yeah, beginning of a great friendships. Yeah. It's funny how it's it's funny how the Bitcoin world brings people together.

Dread  
It really is. It felt like fate to me. And it was an amazing fish, by the way as well. That was a great.

Mike Peterson  
That's right. We had one of those big giant fishes that night. I think Peter paid for that. And that was, I'm trying to remember who else was there.

Dread  
Oh, man. A lot of people. There was a guy from I think Bloomberg. And I don't know who else on the other side of the table.

Mike Peterson  
Yeah, I remember because I remember because when you showed up, he was like, this feels like this was staged or something. Mark was there on that trip, yeah. But the report was like, this feels like it was staged because you guys are just sitting here and then some random person just shows up and says, are you guys Bitcoiners?

Dread  
Yeah, he did say on stage. It was so natural. Like I only tweeted you maybe, what? Two days ago?

Mike Peterson  
Yeah, I'm coming to El Salvador. It's like, but a lot of people would say that, and you'll never see from them. So you know. And then you showed up. I was like, oh, wow. I guess he meant like, now he's coming. I was on a mission. And that was, is that right after the law was announced?

Dread  
Before. This is a good. The law wasn't even talked about before.

Mike Peterson  
Ah that's right. That was when, okay, that was Mallers still there, then? 

Dread  
All those in a couple of people from his team.

Mike Peterson  
So that was before, like, even anybody really knew what was going on in your early days.

Dread  
Yeah, I came down on my own mission. I had no idea that was happening. I was just like, I'm gonna find out what you guys are doing. I'm gonna duplicate it where I'm coming from.

Mike Peterson  
But how long did you stay that trip?

Dread  
That trip was about four days. And then I came back and stayed another week.

Mike Peterson  
And was that during the conference, or when did you come back the next time?

Dread  
I think it was during the conference. 

Mike Peterson  
You spoke at the conference the first year, right?

Dread  
First year, I was still just figuring stuff out. You know, I was in full on absorption mode. Because there was so much going on here. And I've heard about it. You know, when you guys first started before there was even a Bitcoin beach wallet. And I kind of had in the back of my mind like, oh, yeah, they're doing something over there, but not much noise. You know, I was watching it. And then I saw the Peter McCormick interview about it down there. And that's when I was like, okay.

Mike Peterson  
And that was early early on. Yeah. That was like, right when we first started. 

Dread  
And I said, I have to get down there and see what's happening. Because I'm already, you know, fully sold on doing something my mind didn't know what it was. But I knew I had to work on something to make sure my part of the world got this too.

Mike Peterson  
I remember you saying that you're like, we need a Bitcoin Beach, Jamaica. So, just for a little context, let people know your bitcoin journey, how you came in to the space, and how you ended up in El Salvador. 

Dread  
Yeah. So I'm Dread and I am technology consultant by, you know, Fiat trade, I guess you can call it recovering technology consultant. And that kind of got me into the technology space in general, and seeing what new technology was out there. I come from a family of engineers, so we're always looking at future technology. And, you know, what's making the world better, as corny as that sounds. And I got Bitcoin put across my desk the first time in 2013-14. And I saw it and thought, okay, well, my friends are buying drugs with it, I don't really want to send money to Japan to figure out how to buy this stuff. So I'm gonna pass. 

Dread  
And then again, in 2017, was the touch where I was with a bunch of coworkers, and we're all buying on Coinbase. And in the middle of the hash wars, and you don't know what's going on, you're just trying to buy and hold, and then you make some profit. And you're like, okay, well, what about all these other coins? So I had a little stint of shake coining, sorry about the language.

Mike Peterson  
That we allow, that's the one swear word we allow on that.

Dread  
And got wrecked, you know. So from that point on, I said, I'm going to really not just you know what Bitcoin is, but dig deep as to why it was created in the first place. What use it has, besides just making money, because obviously, I'm not good at that. And that down the rabbit hole of learning about the freedom part, and everybody has their different parts of it, you know, there's this analogy of an elephant where, if a blind man touches the elephant in different places, you'll think it's a completely different thing to hosta feed the, you know, the tongue, the skin. And to me, it was like, well, for me, I just saw freedom immediately, I saw a way to be able to let people that are currently I hate using the word so bluntly, but it's true and slaves to their job are enslaved by time, by their lack of time. That's all we have freedom, I think, well, I can use this tool. 

Dread  
So from that point forward, it became more of an educational journey for me than a money making journey. And that changed everything. That's when I started looking at, you know, ways that Bitcoin can help many different industries, ways that Bitcoin can enhance your knowledge in different sciences, different technologies, different game theory, psychology, you name it, you know, and then from that point forward, it was like, alright, well, now that I've learned, how can you can I teach?

Mike Peterson  
You were born in Jamaica, right?

Mike Peterson  
Sorry, I'm not trying to dock you but yeah, I'm sorry. 

Dread  
I am Jamaican. But technically, I was born closer to where you're from. Born in San Diego.

Mike Peterson  
So were you seeing more potential for this like in Jamaica versus I think I believe you worked in the US. But, any more than I already have, did you see is more needed there? Are you saw it kind of equal? Like, just curious. I've never been to Jamaica. So I don't know what the banking systems like there. I don't know what the financial systems like there.

Dread  
Well, first, we got to fix that. You got to come to Jamaica. We'll talk about that. Second, I saw it much more needed in Jamaica than in the US. Mainly because not just the banking said, Well, you know what? Yes, the banking system? I mean, sure, there's devaluation of the dollar. Sure, there is, you know, capital controls. But the banking system was the main thing for me, because in Jamaica, our banking system is set up in such a way that there are no API's, you can connect to the banks, or really, at all, I mean, some of the countries are very similar but Jamaica, you there is no FinTech app, there's no cash up, there's no Venmo, there's no PayPal, there's no moving money from one phone to the other. Even if you want to use an account and move money from one to the other. You have to sign in. You have to do some verification, it's not usually very easy. If you are just a blue collar worker, for example, you're not going to be able to pull out your phone and do this. You have to be home in front of a computer and probably getting help.

Mike Peterson  
Not a lot of like online bill pay type things. It's more still done in cash?

Dread  
Um, the online bill pay does exist now as of recently, maybe five or so years. But most people because of habit, just pay in cash does a place called Paymaster. And you'll see lines and lines of people just going in with.

Dread  
Boo pay master, taking all your money for your bills. No, it's um, it's pretty much a monopoly that they have there. They're like, if you're going to pay your bills in any way, shape or form, you're not paying directly to the utility. You're gonna go through paymaster. So honestly, that's one of the one of the vector points for Bitcoin. At least some some proxy there. But um, yeah, it's a cash dominant society, mainly because the banks are bad. If you want to deposit your money in a bank, you're gonna pay a fee, to deposit. To deposit your money. To open an account. Well, open an account is one fee, but just depositing the money afterwards, every time is a fee. 

Dread  
Taking it out is a fee, transferring it to somebody else, even on the same bank is a fee. Keeping your money in the bank is a fee. You know, putting too much money in the bank changes your fee. So it's not a very clean system for the average low income Jamaican who makes $300 a month, if they're taking $5 out of your money to just put it in, and then another $5 to take it out of the ATM. It's not practical for you.

Mike Peterson  
Is 300, is that like, minimum wage? How would you describe the economy there compared to like El Salvador? Would it be pretty similar, more developed, less developed?

Dread  
In terms of economy, I would say more developed, but in a bad way, because our cost of living is ten times. What it is in a Salvador? Like we have US cost of living in Jamaica, but we're getting, like I said $300 a month for minimum salary. The average income in Jamaica as of 2022 cents consensus is $3,500 a year. So not much more than minimum wage is the average, you know, and then you have the smaller class of Jamaicans white collar, expats, etc, are living on a much higher standard. And there's a huge gap in between two tiered society, a very two tiered society, unfortunately, and the hierarchy, of course, are using the banks, though, they're willing to pay the fees, but even them, and this is why I say it's more needed in Jamaica, then in the US. 

Dread  
Even that higher tier society, they, if they're not relying on an American bank, then the debit cards that you use in Jamaica cannot be used to buy anything on Amazon.  You cannot use the Visa Card to pay your Netflix bill, those Visa cards and master cards do not work outside of Jamaican institutions and Jamaican banks. So we're cut off from the global e-commerce world. And the only way that they can get access to an even the rich people is to either have an American bank and have a debit card that you can use in America, or Bitcoin. So I think there's a vector that will hit the entire population of Jamaica, not just the poor, not just the unbanked that we can use that need is not injured in America yet.

Mike Peterson  
That's interesting, because even even to pay the places to one accept Bitcoin directly, I guess Jamaicans could use Bitcoin to get one of the like, prepaid debit cards that a lot of the companies are offering.

Dread  
Or Amazon gift card. You can, if you can pay for your Amazon stuff, just by getting a gift card and all of a sudden know your Jamaican flash card or debit card, or whatever it is, is going to give you instant access to American products, European products anywhere on the world where you couldn't do that today with your bank account. So I think it's, there's something there. I am not really sure how prevalent it will be mainly because if you're in that class of people in America, in Jamaica that have a debit card, or even a credit card, you also probably have a friend in the US with an American bank account that you can barter with.

Mike Peterson  
That makes sense. So when we first connected you were like, hey, we need this and Jamaica, we need to see a Bitcoin Beach, Jamaica. And you were determined you were gonna be the one to you know, to drive that. Is there a Bitcoin beach Jamaica yet. Can we come visit?

Dread  
Not yet. Two weeks to know. I'm just getting that two weeks. But I am still working on it like. So making a circular economy is hard. Really? I don't know if you knew this. It's been a journey, just learning exactly how hard it is and all the initial prerequisites that are needed to even get it off the ground. You know, a lot of people might come to El Salvador and see Bitcoin BTC goes on to and think, oh my god, this is amazing, all they did is just throw some bitcoin in the sea and mix it up and you had a circular economy with people accepting bitcoin. 

Dread  
But even if you have all the right ingredients, the thing I learned is that if you don't start out with an existing initiative in the community, that is looking out for the people that doesn't even care about Bitcoin, doesn't care about money in general, and is only focused on making the lives of the people in that community better, whether it's through, you know, getting them out of violence situations, whether it's increasing the education, increasing the employment, increasing the standard of living, increasing the morale, they just spiritual values that they have, if you don't have a existing and trusted community leader, or community institution that's already there doing it, you're wasting your time, you're not gonna get anywhere with Bitcoin. And I learned that the hard way. 

Dread  
I went to community showed up, I'm here to fix everything with Bitcoin. And they laughed at me, they're like, what are you doing? First of all, we don't even know you. You're from Jamaica, but and you're not from this community. And second, we don't really care. We've had people come down to this community with boatloads of dollars before promising us the world. And every single time, what do you think happen they take advantage of them and walk away with whatever resource they wanted and leave those people worse off than they were before. And that is the standard, right from a community is that when you come in there, you offer them something, they're never going to trust you. Especially not with a technology that they don't understand.

Mike Peterson  
That's magic money that you can't see. 

Dread  
Yeah, go ahead and give me your cash. And I promise it's not your phone. It's not gonna work. So I realized I needed a community leader, I needed multiple community leaders to actually be doing something in the community that I can offer Bitcoin to them, and it's up to them to use it. So I've been on a mission from now on, to not only increase my knowledge of Bitcoin and my technical capabilities, to be able to assist that person, but also make sure that when they're ready, I also have all the resources that I could possibly need, you know, like the bubble is a great resource that they could use. The wall that I'm building is another great resource they can use. I'm also trying to form a small Bitcoin community, you know, via meetups, so that they have other people.

Mike Peterson  
Yeah, we definitely need people to support it. One person.

Dread  
I'm making the meetup now. I think we're on the fourth meetup right now in Kingston. And that's building up a little bit of the awareness, you know, and once these resources are there, a community leader that's interested now I can say, okay, I see what El Salvador is doing. I'm caring about my people, and this could help them. And I see resources all around that I can use to make this happen. And I'm hoping that will make it happen organically, as opposed to me trying to force it down anyone's throat?

Mike Peterson  
No, I think that's definitely the right way to go about and like you're saying it, it needs to be. Bitcoin needs to be a tool, but the goal needs to be improving people's lives. If the goal is just to get people using Bitcoin, it's going to fail. Yeah, it needs to be seen that you actually care about the community, which, which obviously, you do, but sometimes people think that like, like you said, it's easy. We'll just throw some bitcoins out there. And you know, it'll just automatically happen.

Dread  
And I tried that, you know, I went to places and gave them enough to do promotions. You know, if you pay with Bitcoin, you get this and you get bad and free pizza day. And it ended the same way every time where it's just kind of died off. And some of the owners of those businesses don't even accept Bitcoin anymore, because, oh, it's a bear market. No one's going to spend Bitcoins, we'll just stop accepting it. That shows me. I didn't dig deep enough with that business to have them on the same mission I'm on. They're not trying to build anything long term. They were just looking for profit.

Mike Peterson  
So one of the things that you saw was just the need for tools that would would work in Jamaica, because there was, you know, some of the wallets that existed out there. Were missing certain things that you guys needed. And I'm hoping I can push you to divulge in a year well, yeah, your, your project that you have here.

Dread  
I would love to. There was no wallets out there first of all. Even if you, well, I guess you could call finance and you know what a coin base those are wallets, but you couldn't connect your Jamaican banks to them. So it was really nothing they could use. So my whole goal to your point I'm going to announce it on the show here is to build a wallet for Jamaica, and by extension for the Caribbean. The 13th islands officially and then 26 regions all around it. And that while it's called Flash.

Mike Peterson  
I love that. I love that name. That's the flash you get when your lightning payment is gone.

Dread  
Exactly. Went in a flash. You know your quick, quick payments, I like to say that Flash is the first lightning wallet to actually steal lightning from the gods. But I think Zeus already took that, so I can't use that anymore. But um, flashes, a hybrid custody lightning wallet. I think this is the first of its kind. And what I've done is I've stood on the shoulders of giants, you know. I've worked with the team to take a branch a fork of their wallet, which is the blink wallet. And have rebranded it and then kind of ripped some of the guts out and put in some cool stuff in there. One of the cool things to make it a hybrid custody lightning wallet is it's a non-custodial lightning wallet on one of the two wallets in the app.

Dread  
Okay, so when you say hybrid, you really just mean there's a custodial wallet and a non-custodial.

Dread  
And a button you can flip between back and forth. That's my little secret sauce that, you know.

Mike Peterson  
I guess a lot of people who use their very noncustodial they still usually have a custodial wallet is the backup exactly when that's not working. So they have those both in one.

Dread  
So why I have to have two apps on your phone just off one, Jamaica is gonna leapfrog the people who are doing noncustodial, custodial, and the Jamaicans will have one app that does both. And I'm, I'm really excited because it's gonna give them this opportunity now to not only have a noncustodial wallet that's accepting bitcoin from anywhere around the world. But then they can always flip it into custodial that is going to be USD pegged. So that they can keep a stable balance without having to worry about.

Mike Peterson  
Is that losing the stable SAT or using something else to do that?

Dread  
So that's been still kind of, you know, up in the air, I've been focused on using ibex, and ibex, as you know, is a lightning service service provider that is custodial. And they allow an off ramp and that's important to me because I can create off ramp locations in Jamaica using their service. However Giloy seems to be catching up on the technology.

Mike Peterson  
Ibex have a stable.

Dread  
Yeah, neither did I until I asked them and they have a stable USD, stable Mexican peso, stable Guadalajara. Yeah. 

Mike Peterson  
Is there's work similar to stable SAT? Or how does? How does there's no network.

Dread  
I'm not a hundred percent sure as I can like speak on the record how it works. But I know stable sites is perpetual swaps using an exchange, but ibex is more them doing their own internal bookkeeping or stable.

Dread  
So that's something I probably need to follow up to make sure I know exactly what stable coin or perpetual swap they're using and what exchange you're using it with. But Ibex is abstracting that away. And Ibex becomes the de facto guarantor for the USD, regardless of what happens on the stable side. As opposed to deploy exposing you directly to the exchange.

Mike Peterson  
Well, I think on the global side, I mean, I think that if there ever was anything, they would back that, you know, obviously, to the degree that they're able to, yeah, from my understanding of the way it's set up, that's pretty low risk.

Dread  
And I'm interested, because now they're starting to offer an off ramp. And the only reason I didn't use stable sites is because they had no offer.

Mike Peterson  
Well, they just made that announcement, I think like  conferences.

Dread  
Yeah, I have my slides to thing I didn't know. So you know, that's I said, it's up in the air.

Mike Peterson  
So speaking of slides, I heard the Andy saying that he had the deck, can I push you to let us run through the deck because that's how I learned.

Dread  
We down for that. Yeah. Let's give you guys a quick run through of what I'm building here. So you can skip the acknowledgments we already talked about that. If you go back you see I crossed out the super. I am not like you've seen some really cool coders come through here. And it's not those guys.

Mike Peterson  
I'll tell Elizabeth Warren that we found the shadows.

Dread  
But the Caribbean is something that is not understood very well across the world. So I like to spend a little time here and talk about what the Caribbean is. All right. We are an Arctic archipelago of islands that cuts across from North America down to central South America. We separate the North Atlantic Ocean from El Salvador, actually, and from this little hole, little strip. 

Dread  
And that's important because it ends up creating trade routes all around the world. So it's a pretty important piece of land. But because of that people have come from all over the world to settle there, whether it's through slave trade, colonization, just natural migration. And there are six different languages spoken officially across the Caribbean, but over 20 native Grails, Pontoise, different dialects. The cultures are just amazing. It's like a blend of people that come together. 

Dread  
But they're related in terms of the Caribbeanism of them. You know, we have a lot of Carnival, like John Canoes and music that are very similar and very rich. And that's something that I don't want to be, you know, separated over time. That's something that we keep together. Unfortunately, we're not always able to do it. Because we're not just separated by water. We're also separated by a lot of jurisdictional blocking of communication of money transfer of just even going places. Like if I wanted to go to Florida right now, from Jamaica, it's easier than to go to Haiti, which is 90 miles away, which is a simple boat ride, it's easier to go to Mexico than it is to go to Cuba, which is right beside Jamaica. Where can I go to Cuba? Why does it matter what macro whatever is going on that I can't just see my friend in Cuba. So that's a problem. 

Dread  
But despite them keeping us apart, like that, we have one thing that that overpowers that once or twice a year, and lets everybody come together and you can skip to the next slide. That's carnival. And for people on the podcast, I'm showing flags from all over the country all over the islands, which are multiple colored flags, and then a carnibbal costume you've ever seen on before. It's just beautiful costume with flowers and jewelry and but dazzling and woman dress up in it and dance and men dance in shorts. And it's just a big celebration of life. It happens usually after crop over if you follow it, you know, agricultural cycles. And that's when we're celebrating the fact that we're able to reap, enjoy our lives how food, you know, be able to last the summer. And every single Caribbean nation even not just islands, but Belize, Guyana, they celebrate this too. And so this is a Caribbean thing I'd like to say is where we kind of coalesce.

Mike Peterson  
Is carnival, different there than it would be in Brazil?

Dread  
Only because it has a Caribbean flavor. But same thing Brazil is almost like the granddaddy of Carnival right so yeah, that's much more official. Ours is more like free wild West think of it more like a burning man. But with you know, just a lot of colors. And, and more, I guess burning minds in the middle of the desert. So this is much more tropical.

Mike Peterson  
But you said it brings everybody together. I'm assuming that means just in that people are have a similar celebration, not that like, you know, the travel restrictions are dropped or anything like that.

Dread  
Well traveled restrictions, I guess was something more new, but this kind of has been going on for, you know, decades and decades. And it would be in one place like Trinidad and Tobago, for example, is the Mecca of most of the Caribbean carnivals, and every year, everyone from every island would go to Trinidad and Tobago. We get all the industry together, just hanging out having fun celebrating life. It's you know, trucks go down the street and have music and everyone's dancing and meeting people. And it's just, this energy that you really have to experience to realize that you are in a special place. That's your like, you could be dancing. And there's four different people around you that speaking different languages that are from different places, and they're all hanging out together.

Mike Peterson  
Is that one time a year everybody's friends everybody can get along?

Dread  
Yeah. Whatever rivals or rivalries you have doesn't matter. And new families are formed there. There's a thing called carnival baby. You know, you might come from half Guadalupe, half Puerto Rican, and it's because you were born in a carnival, or incepted in a carnival. So I love that. So you can go to the next slide. I like to try and figure out what do these Caribbean diaspora Caribbean people think about money. What are the problems that we have. And the problems that we have end up being that we talked about earlier, cash is king and everything else is kind of off to the side. 

Dread  
And that's only because it's forced to be that way. So you can skip to the next slide again. Many of our communities are cash only mainly because they have to be if you are in a place called Long Bay, Jamaica, and it's one of my favorite places, but it's the place that I went to and they told me you know, you can't just bring Bitcoin here, but that little town of a lot of thousand people is cash only. There is no ATM in the entire town, you can maybe go up the street to a hotel, and that hotel might have an ATM there. But apart from that, you'd have to drive an hour into the main city to get to an ATM. 

Dread  
And because of that, even the stores there, they don't have point of sale machines, they either want you to have cash on you, or you gotta go somewhere to get cash. And that's a very common thing across many communities. So there's almost a mini Circular Economy happening already where you might get paid as a worker, and then you are using your cash to pay a supplier and then not suppliers using their cash or to pay a supermarket. That's a market. And then that market is paying cash to the supplier. And it's only when the supply goes back into town is when that money goes back. 

Dread  
So I feel like if we can cut that off and make this whole thing of full circle, it's already there. And I was all excited. Yeah, just do it. No. You need to have community leaders first that are caring about the people, but cash is king. And because of that, you can go to the next slide. I don't know if you can show this on the front. But on the podcast, I'm going to tell you that there's a strong distrust in the banking system. And it's mainly because I'll cut to the chase. The banking system stole $2.1 million from Usain Bolt. And this is only one microcosm of what's been happening in Jamaican banking system. 

Dread  
Usain Bolt is the fastest sprinter in the world. He has the world record, and the entrepreneur, that's a person. Like if there's two people that are important in Jamaica right now, in terms of legend, it's Bob Marley and Usain Bolt. And Usain Bolt has broken the 100 meter record, the 200 meter record, the four by 100 meter record. And I think those are the only three ons right now. And then many other records that are not world records.

Mike Peterson  
Were you a sprinter too?

Dread  
I would never that good. Yeah. I would never say I'm a sprinter considering the world record holder with the same country.

Mike Peterson  
So how did how did they steal 2.1 million from him?

Dread  
He had his money in an investment institution, financial institution in Jamaica called SSL, this is public records, I can always talk about it now. And they siphon money from his account. And when did he the bank wasn't hacked, nobody got his passwords. There was no social engineering here, the bank themselves, siphoned money from his account, and hid it from him. And it was only when he had a second person check his account. It was empty. It wasn't less, it wasn't, you know, half the empty the account, assuming that he's probably never gonna check it or not gonna check it for a long time. And they might have a time to bring it back in after they've made whatever profit they're making off it or I don't know the details. But I do know that he wasn't the only person that this happened to because once he blew the whistle, and filed a lawsuit, and discovery started, they realized there were dozens and dozens of people from that bank that were also being siphoned from. 

Dread  
They had a foul lady that some manager from SSL that, you know, admitted it on paper that she did it. But it's hard to believe that dozens and dozens of people can be swindled of their money from a bank and isn't a nobody knows. So Jamaican people, of course, are not going to like this is an ongoing case. So I'm not a lawyer. I can't tell you what actually happened. He's wait in court. That's the current state of the financial institutions in Jamaica right now. So people don't trust them. That's kind of the point of the story here, that even if you do have a bank account, even if you do want to be subjected to these high fees, and and no simple API's to use, you still can't trust they're gonna keep your money in the bank. Because there have a history of, of doing this to people already. So I think it's right for change, unfortunately, you can go to the next slide. The Jamaican people also have a bit of a struggle with technology.

Mike Peterson  
And that's right now.

Dread  
And this might, yeah. It's one of those things where, you know, people love their phones, Jamaica, everybody in Jamaica has a mobile phone, like 110% immersion, some people have two phones, just because you know, one's cool, whatever. They love WhatsApp, they love the simple apps, but you bring something a little bit harder in terms of technology to Jamaica, and it's gonna have a hard time adopting, mainly because we're not inherently a technology culture, right? A lot of things are still done with paper and pencil. We're used to the banks, and everything banks, lawyers, anything you have to do that some fit in an official capacity or government capacities. There's a lot of paper and pencil involved, right taxes, name it, I mean, all that stuff is just now starting to become digitized. And it's still early days. So the average Jamaican is going to look at something new in 10, in terms of technology, and if it's not familiar, they're probably not going to try and adopt it. So it's hard.

Mike Peterson  
Is that include the younger people, would you say it's across the board? Or is that?

Dread  
I would say it's across the board. Yeah, there, of course, we're talking about a separation here, too, right? There's a the lower class and the and the upper class of younger people probably would adopt the technology quicker, the lower class, probably not so much. So it has to be easy, regardless of what the technology is that we're introducing to them, it has to be easy. They have to deal with us, or me. Something we can all just use and with new without a manual. Yeah, you know, so you can skip to the next slide. 

Dread  
So this is where I introduced Flash in the presentation, it was just an answer to all of these problems that Jamaica has words cache only, where we don't like banks where, you know, we need something that's easy to use. And flash, I don't know, if you've known the recent upgrade to Blink, you don't need to need to even put in your your phone number, or email address. It's limited, of course, in terms of how much you can spend on it. But you can literally download the app, click Start. And you have a lightning wallet.

Mike Peterson  
So the risk would be though, if you lose your phone or something like that you can't recover it. And there's a wallet of Satoshi as you can start using wallet of Satoshi without doing any backup also.

Dread  
I think that was the model, that guy went off. And then once you start putting in enough money, I think it's over 100 bucks, then it's like, okay, you probably want to put in your phone number or email address to backup your funds. And that also provides a little bit of a KYC enough to raise your limit now. And then I'm going to be creating also a business account on Flash that allows business owners to raise their limit even more, give me the bank on information. And then I'm going to be their exchange I guess where if they need to whatever Bitcoin they collected for their services, cash out, I put it in their bank.

Mike Peterson  
So you'll offer buy sell within the wallet taken.

Dread  
In the MVP of the wallet, I'm only offering sell. Okay, so if you're a business, you're collecting Bitcoin, you can sell it to me and you will get cash in your bank account. Same day, because it's final settlement. So that's, that's huge. In terms of all the remittance companies I've spoken to, they're like, well, if you can get me, same day, return on all of my like, for example, a remittance company, I'm giving you all the alpha right now, remittance company is in Jamaica, and they go ahead and do half million dollars of remittances for the day, they have to wait 48 hours 24, at least for Western Union to reimburse them that. That is 24 hours of money that's not in their bank account earning interest. Just that one day alone of me saying, yeah, go ahead and give me all that Bitcoin immediately, you get that back in your bank account before end of day, there are no getting on hold days worth of interest I didn't have before. I didn't even realize that was.

Mike Peterson  
Well, not just that also the peace of mind. Because anytime you don't have that, or just your own liquidity needs that you have that so.The next day, you might not have enough to yeah, so now every day, they're gonna have a fresh start with the same cash, they can, you know, provide to the people there. So I think that we have a model that'll work more than just saying we're lower western union fees. No, I think we're also helping the businesses be more efficient, which hopefully that'll allow them to lower their costs as well. 

Dread  
So you can keep going forward on Flash run through this. I love this logo, by the way. This is like the same designer that did the amber wallet helped me with this as well. So shout out to her. But my main goal was to say that it's not just another lightning wallet. There's tons of lightning wallets out there. I could have just used blink in Jamaica, honestly. But I wanted to make sure that we had something that we could say was built in the Caribbean by Caribbean's and for us, you know, and that's kind of important. Like I said, we want that culture to remain together so you can skip to the next one. That's just me saying Yamo is like yet another lightning wallet, you know, boring, but it's not you can skip forward. 

Dread  
And this one is specifically geared towards remittance like my entire goal Flash is not just a lightning wallet company. It is an off From company, I'm making sure that the majority of the work I'm going to be doing going forward is going to be in Jamaica, onboarding all the businesses that can onboard, not just in a community, but across the whole island. So anyone in Jamaica that wants to get remittance and get cash out, can find a place to do so.

Mike Peterson  
And I think, though, and this is something that I go round and round with, with Bitcoiners on because they're like, Well, why would you need an off ramp? They should just stay in Bitcoin. And I get it all that they have to see that the more off ramps that are available, the more likely people are to accept Bitcoin, and the more likely they are to actually keep it in Bitcoin. Because if they know at any time, they can use it however they want. They'll prefer to keep it in Bitcoin. But if they're like scared, like, oh, I won't be able to exchange it, they're gonna change it to fiat right away. So the more on and off ramps we have, the better circular Bitcoin economies work.

Dread  
You hit the nail on the head, like, and to me, it's like off ramps first, and then on ramps right closely behind it. But if you can just get them to realize that to your point, it's the same thing, and I can change it in the blink of an eye or in a flash, then, then everything else flows downstream from that.

Mike Peterson  
No, because that's what makes it real for them. They don't have that option that well, this isn't real money. And so over time, they start to realize, oh, actually, this is the real money. That's not real money, but it's a process.

Dread  
Yeah, that's not going to happen on day one. I don't expect it to. And I'm hoping that from that point forward, I can kind of let the ingenuity happen, you know that the business owners that realize it's real money, they take the initiative now to build it out.

Mike Peterson  
That their employees start wanting to be paid in Bitcoin. And they have, yeah.

Dread  
We've seen it happen, it doesn't happen all at once. It happens in like a process and, and the process tends to happen quicker and an up market. So I think your timing is good on that.

Dread  
That's the goal to some kind of going live now with it, like talking about it on podcast, because I feel like, you know, if I get it in their hands and people start, there's like a critical mass of people that are that have it when the bull market happens. It might actually move the needle.

Mike Peterson  
It moves the needle, and then what you'll find is in the bear market, it becomes a little tougher, but then that's when they realize, oh, it's not just number go up. It's all these other benefits, too. So these statistics here, that 25 billion, and that's in remittances, is that for all of the Caribbean?

Dread  
All the Carribean. Yeah. In Jamaica alone is 3.4 billion. Okay, annually, and this is just inflow.

Mike Peterson  
How many people are in Jamaica?

Dread  
It's been going down now, so I don't remember the exact number. I want to say it's 1.9 million.

Mike Peterson  
So it's not the population isn't that big? You should know, you should know how many people live in your country, or at least an approximate.

Dread  
It might be made easy the one point or 2.9. I'm gonna look it up now.

Mike Peterson  
So that would be like a third of of El Salvador. So that's a lot of remittances for if it's only one point well, even at 2.9.

Dread  
That's still number sounds well. Number sounds well, it's, yeah, it's 2.9.

Mike Peterson  
So it's like half the population of El Salvador.

Dread  
It is and then we probably have another million around the world. Yeah. You know, so. And then the remittance part, this is why I focused on it as well. The average amount sent is about $250, which is like the peak rate of what Western Union charges. Yeah, that's terrible. And then similar to El Salvador, our GDP is a big portion in remittance sick, we have plus 20% of G. During COVID, it probably skyrocketed 23% of the GDP. So we're, we're heavily dependent on this money coming in. And where does the money come in from? Well, there's five major regions. And when it comes in from one the most one is the USA, and the USA has a lot of good institutions and rails for Bitcoin. Second is Canada. Third is the UK, fourth is a Cayman Islands. And then fifth, weird enough is Turks and Caicos. Don't know why. But a lot of remittance coming from those places into Jamaica and the Caribbean at large. 

Dread  
So the fact that the three big well, I'm not sure about the UK anymore in terms of the Bitcoin laws there. But the UK and Canada, the US and Canada have a good amount of immersion in Bitcoin and apps that it can I can easily say, if you have friends and family in the UK, and sorry, I keep on saying the UK. I don't know why I stuck on that the US and Canada if your friends and family in the US and Canada, they can send you money from any bitcoin wallet that they have. And then they can get.

Mike Peterson  
Something like Cash App, which is there's probably a lot of people from the Jamaican community that using cash app. That's an easy one that they can.

Dread  
I say cash up all the time. Yeah, that's my go to and then I might say you know, like any other wallet you want as well, but to me because Cash App is, is targeting the demographics that are usually sending money home, then it's such an easy sell. Because the people would be like, oh, yeah, I already have it on my phone, I don't really have to do anything else. But click that button, and then you get cash easier than Western Union. So, that being said, that's the main goal. If you skip forward, there's a here's what I was talking about in terms of off ramps that I'm building. And you can skip this too.

Mike Peterson  
So what was your last one there was profit. How is this going to be sustainable?

Dread  
Yeah, so it's a good question. Of course, I'm going to be collecting fees, you know, similar to the Galloway model, when I put in a fee to make sure that I can maintain and grow the product. But this isn't the end goal, you know, this is probably going to be a loss leader in the long run. Because not only does Jamaica need off from tools they need to exchange itself, like we need to be able to have something that Jamaicans can buy and sell Bitcoin, no exchange, and there's zero exchanges in Jamaica, not even crypto exchanges exist in Jamaica, if you don't have either a US card, or an international debit, or an international credit card that is going to cost the average American 40% or more in for your rate your credit card, you're not going to buy Bitcoin or crypto anywhere. 

Dread  
And it's, they have they use all these roundabout ways, right, you'll have a way you can deposit some money in some random Neil bank, that will take your wire transfer, and then they'll buy the Bitcoin for you. Very roundabout, very expensive, I'm assuming very expensive, you're paying fees all the way around. But there's no direct exchanges in Jamaica to buy bitcoin. So that's one of the goals. 

Dread  
The goal is to make an exchange that people can actually buy and sell Bitcoin, cheaply, and easily using their local debit cards, local credit cards or cash. And one of the main places I started even before I came to see Bitcoin beach in El Salvador, I opened up two locations for us TECHO. And had I was setting Jamaica, in Jamaica. I had a business in Jamaica that I was running in Kingston, and then one of the stores in Portland that I orange pill, they accepted the point of sale machine for me to be an aesthetical vendor there as well. And only one of those are still running in Jamaica. But the goal is to give people access like that. 

Dread  
So whether it's them paying in cash, but that's TECO, or with their bank account with the exchange, the goal is to make something that not just Jamaica, but the Caribbean can use to kind of buy and sell Bitcoin. So this is the beginning of hopefully, a long and fruitful journey that ends in a circular economy with a community leader that cares about their people and has all the tools to build to build the future. So that's the profit the profit is not the money. The profit is a better Jamaica that I can see my family living in.

Dread  
So let's skip to the so what and this is kind of where the presentation takes a little futuristic turn, because I like talking about this stuff. I'm a tech guy, right? The average Jamaican and even if they know about Bitcoin is not going to stop using cash. Because like I said, they've been using cash.

Mike Peterson  
People are creatures of habit, it has to be much better or much easier. Or they'll still, if it's just marginally better than they prefer to use the route they know.

Dread  
All day, all day. So they a lot of people say it has to be 10x better, right? Like they have to see a ridiculous amount of reason to use it. For them to even stop using cash, even if cash isn't good. But in Jamaica, cash is good, it's safe, right? No one knows you have it unless you show it. It's there's no fees to Shenzen cash around. So we have to do tennis better than that for them to adopt a law that's in Jamaica so you can skip to the next one. Everybody knows what cash is private, no fees. Noncustodial. Easy to use. Anyone can use cash. It's dangerous though. 

Dread  
You have a wad of cash in your pocket, you walk in home from the store, you walk into the bill pay, you can get robbed right if people are targeting you know backups or insurance for cash. There's no FDIC insurance for the cash in your pocket. It's in person only as well. You can't use cash and buy anything on Amazon. And just one to one payments. And this is kind of where the 10x comes into play the one to one payments for cash. And similarly with debit cards. Like if you're paying a bill, you can't pay, you can't swipe your credit card once and pay 10 people that just doesn't exist. It never had existed for cash or debit cards. So that's something that we play with. So if you go to the next slide we need to be 10x better and therefore yeah, so you know if cash is just airplanes we need a rocket ship which is Bitcoin. A cool demonstration there. That's what the slide says when other people on the podcast.

Dread  
 And then if you go to the next one, how do we do it, or the next one, we're using a full stack. So this is kind of where all of the technology that I've been just around for the last several years, I'm using it to build on the shoulders of giants like to say, and build on the Bitcoin stack, the lightning stack, and the noster stack. And the noster part is the important part, because that's the social layer that allows us to do a lot of things that lightning alone can't do. Consider it to be supercharging lightning. How? Alright, let's go to the next one. 

Dread  
There's something you can do with, with Nasta and lightning that you couldn't do with lightning alone, it's called prisms or split payments. I think it's coming to the protocol level now. So how does that work? Yeah, so it's one too many payments, you know, everything else we talked about before, cash, and flash will have at the same time, there'll be private, no fees, noncustodial, easy to use. And unlike flash, unlike cash, Flash cash, unlike cash, it'll be safe, it will have backups, and it'll be global, you can buy on Amazon. The key is the 10x key is that it will be one to many payments. How does that work? 

Dread  
If you're in your flash wallet, and you have four bills that you want to pay, I mean, you might just be paying Paymaster. But if you're not, you can set up all four payments if they're accepting lightning. And with Noster Wallet Connect, you can click the button once and zap all four payments at one time with one transaction. And that makes it a lot easier to do many things like there's companies doing payroll or companies accepting a payment. And this is kind of where it gets futuristic companies accepting a payment. And as soon as they accept that payment, it immediately splits out to all of the revenue shareholders for whatever product that's selling, that's a whole different way of doing payroll, right, you never have to have a payroll day, because your employee as a working is just seeing the stat just sat stream in as the products are sold. 

Dread  
And I think this opens us up to a different future of what Bitcoin companies could be doing with their balance sheets, because they have products like this that allow them to just have the money flowing freely between and this goes back down to the shop owner, right? Not just the company's like you're a shop owner, and you have your you know, family in the back. And every time you get something sold, you know, your son gets his stipend, you know, your daughter gets her stipend, your, you have a certain part that goes towards the bills you need to pay and it just all kind of flows smoother, in my opinion. And then you can go to the next slide. 

Dread  
It's also social, you know, like, who knows what people are going to start doing with each other once they realize that they can pay all their fans or they can collect from all their fans in this kind of way. I think there's a social layer there that connects the Caribbean now that didn't connect them before. And I bring it all home by saying, imagine a noster Chat, where there are people talking about the carnival from all over the Caribbean. And then they're able to, like each other's carnival costumes pay for each other's carnival things in a social way. That's never been done before. Not one on one. But one too many, like, oh, I like that costume over there. Whoever did that, I'm gonna go ahead and does that that fan is going to it's going to pay everybody that just worked on that project. That's the kind of, you know, economy connecting we're doing here just by giving them the tools to do so. So I think that's a 10x improvement in how you use money. And if people start using it that way, I think that'll drag them away from the cash in their pockets, because they're seeing something that can enrich.

Mike Peterson  
Enrich all these new opportunities. So I'm assuming that a lot of these functions are coming in the future that when you release this, a lot of this stuff will not be operation.

Dread  
Yeah, I'm giving you all the futuristic stuff they the minimum viable product is the lightning wallet that works send and receive cash out.

Mike Peterson  
And but from the beginning, you're gonna have the custodial and non custodial options.

Dread  
Correct. In the beginning, we're using the breeze SDK for non custodial and either Ibex or. For the custodial, which will be US dollar pegged. Okay, and then we're gonna have the Nostr chat from the beginning as well, where anybody you buy or sell from or send or receive, you'll automatically be able to talk to them as well in a chat. And it's cool because you know, the map that shows you all the different vendors that are you know, selling or accepting bitcoin, those vendors are also going to have an account. So if you had a vendor you wanted to check out you could message them in the app first and say hey, what time are you guys open or you know, are you do you have whatever in stock or and you can pay them right there if you want to pre pay and they'll deliver it to you. It's just a whole new way of communicating with businesses now in your app that you're gonna pay them with. So I'm kind of excited about that. 

Mike Peterson  
I love how you're taking all these existing things. And I mean, a lot of ways that's how Bitcoin came together. Yeah, it's taking, you know, these other things that were being are concepts that existed apart from each other and bringing them together in a way that made it in, made it the magic money it is.

Dread  
So and I got to say, I had a little bit of impostor syndrome during this, because, you know, some brilliant minds built each and every one of these tools, right, the Gilroy stack, the breeze SDK stack, the ibex stack, the noster protocol. And I'm bringing it all together, I didn't build anything myself. But then I realized, wait, I did build something myself, because there's a plugin that has to be used to be able to connect breeze and connect Ibex to the blink wallet. And that plug in, I realize is something that can be abstracted away. So any developer can go ahead now and take my plug in and kind of be open source. Yeah, anything I do is open source. 

Dread  
So anybody can take my plug in now and connect stripe to it instead, or connect wallet doesn't have an API, I think pouch from Asia or whatever region they're in, they can connect their local on off ramp to put a wallet in side of the Galloway stack. And that's something that I'm kind of proud of now, because I didn't realize I was building something people could use until I was like halfway through it. And I was like shit, this is usable, like I can, I can get people to have options wherever they are.

Mike Peterson  
Well, and even on the other, I do think that people who have the vision to bring existing I mean, that's how we innovate is by building on other innovations. So just seeing how you can bring all these things together to make a much better product. Those are oftentimes the products that revolutionize something more than the individual components.

Dread  
So yeah, I'm just cost. I'm hoping that's what this becomes. I love the name. I'm hoping that I can get Usain Bolt onboard. So Usain Bolt, if you're listening, we have a wallet here, I'd love you to try and see if you can get some self custody going on in your life.

Mike Peterson  
He obviously needs it. No, but it's the people who have been burned by the banks that I mean, they're the ones that are going to understand why this is so crucial. We did a podcast earlier today with Carlenio. Do you know Carlenio? Yeah. And he was talking about how his family was, you know, business was put on the OFAC list when you know, and they lost everything over some mistake by the US government. And so because of that, he sees the importance of Bitcoin. So it really is the people who have been burned by the existing system that kind of get this so.

Dread  
Because they have no choice. So I feel like if I had a conversation with you saying he would get it. I think he's in the middle of a lawsuit right now.

Mike Peterson  
Hopefully, hopefully he hears about it. Are you raising? Are you bringing on investors? Or are you just bootstrapping this or what's?

Dread  
Yeah. So that's been a good question. I've been asked multiple times over the past four months now. We're still at the end of the bootstrap phase. I'm trying to push into beta next. What are we in November this month, I'm trying to push into beta so that we can have metrics and you know, I can feel like there's a product out there. And then the raise will start. I've been putting out fillers so far. But as of right now, I want to make sure that this product is standing on its own two legs, so that when people are are thinking about investing, they can actually see something in their hands that they're investing in.

Mike Peterson  
Well, it probably doesn't hurt to wait, you know, until we get a little closer to the halving and people that helps people get out of this, like, just survive mode. So that seems to be the the sentiment lately is everybody's just hunkered down. But I think you know, as we see the price start to move again. And all this new innovation come into the market that we'll see a resurgence.

Dread  
A double edged sword though, right? Because then when the bull starts happening, you're gonna have a lot of investors that are throwing their money everywhere and I'm trying to be very selected. You know, like, this is a very important project to me, you know, these are my people. So I want to make sure that I have people on board that are aligned with my vision and you know, our ground up building circular economies as opposed to trying to, you know, in it for the tech or, or make some money or something.

Mike Peterson  
Like, hey, this sounds great, but what you need to do is roll out a token.

Dread  
Yeah. And put three different stable coins in there. Gotta keep the people first.

Mike Peterson  
How can people follow you?

Dread  
Yeah, you can go to the last slide, if it's on the screen. And oh, I should talk about this before. Yeah, sorry. So the built for freedom is pretty important to me. This is like my mission statement. And I made it my company mission statement too. I'm freeing the money, which we are known as Bitcoin. I'm also freeing the market, which is allowing people to do free market peer to peer trade with each other. That's like, in my opinion, that's like the real Trojan horse, you know, because the market is so captured by companies like Grace Kennedy, and these big companies that just forced to go into their supermarkets and their wholesale stores and buy everything instead of going into mom and pop shops. 

Dread  
So free the market on the internet, and digitally. And then lastly, free the code, everything I'm doing is open source, everything I'm using is open source. And I want to make sure that as people build, they realize that you can build a successful product using all open source tools. So that's important to me. And that being said, the last slide is where you can reach me, I am on Nostr at adoptingbitcoin.org. My email is also addressed at info@adoptingbitcoin.org if you want to talk to me. And I'm pretty much on GitHub as well. Coding. So if you, you know have a question for me just submit an issue. 

Dread  
And we're asking you find me on Twitter, not so much. I mean, I barely checked messages there. And they've stopped me from being able to respond to messages. Now, did you know that? Not verified you can't send the message. So I can't say Twitter anymore. Even if I wanted to, I couldn't say Twitter anymore. It's amazing that they're, they've kind of clamped down so quickly. But honestly, if you want to find me, you can come to El Salvador, like, I'm coming down here every other month now, so come to Salvador and have a proposal and look for Dread.

Mike Peterson  
So if there are people that are interested in potentially investing, they just reach out to you directly. That's the best.

Dread  
Reach out to me directly. Let's have a conversation. You'll be super early stage, which is probably where you want to be, you know, and let's talk about how we can get the Caribbean connected.

Mike Peterson  
So I'm assuming that I'm not going to be able to use this wallet because I have a blue passport. And I know that is have you thought through that yet? Are you going to exclude us Americans?

Dread  
TBD? I have, because I am working with Ibex that allows me to be able to cap Americans as customers as well. It just depends, because that comes with a whole another set of additional, you know, reporting requirements. And you probably already know all of this.

Mike Peterson  
Yeah, no, I'll tell you well, I'll have my Salvadoran passport by then, you know.

Dread  
So MVP is going to be non US customers. But that stretches to El Salvador, as you know, like I'm trying to make sure that I work with companies that can cover the entire Caribbean and the coastal Panama, Salvador all the way down. So yeah, if you if you want to use Flash, I think you'll be able to long as you're here.

Mike Peterson  
All right way, it's so good getting to catch up with you. Always fun watching you on this journey from that first flag rolling in like, hey, are you Bitcoiners at you know, then all the conversations we've had over the years and now seeing you innovate like this and build these products that I think are gonna revolutionize things in the Caribbean.

Dread  
And people probably like, when is he gonna do it? He's so long now.

Mike Peterson  
Trust me these I understand these things are, I'm always impressed actually how quickly stuff moves in this space, because it's not it's not easy. Guys are breaking new ground and building this thing. So everybody makes sure you're watching for Flash. And we'll have to have you back on next. Next year after it's rolled out. Oh, yeah, update.

Dread  
So yeah, see Londo will talk about that.

Mike Peterson  
Maybe you'll be living here so yeah they'll see more of you.

Dread  
Yeah we got to talk about that.

Mike Peterson  
All right, brother. Well, I'll let you get back to the activities here that are happening during Bitcoin week.

Dread  
And yeah it's been an amazing week. People need to come down and see the energy that's happening here. 

Mike Peterson  
So much like just positivity, like people are optimistic and looking forward to the future. Everywhere else you go in the world people are like doomsday. Here, it's like, we're in the center of the future.

Dread  
We call this carnival energy. That positive. We're in the center. We feel each other happy. That's carnival energy. You got it down here.