How Swan Bitcoin House And Bitcoin Jungle Bring Economic Freedom to El Salvador and Costa Rica

Live from Bitcoin Beach in El Zonte, El Salvador, our guests bring excitement as they focus on Bitcoin as a lifestyle choice and the impact of digital currency on economy. Jon and Paul discussed how surfing culture and Bitcoin community values intersect. For them, Bitcoin is not just some digital currency, it also provides financial freedom, gathers people, and holds a transformative potential for countries like El Salvador.

Participants are drawn to the Bitcoin community because of the shared goals and values. As part of the El Salvador surfing community, Jon and Paul emphasized how welcoming the community is among bitcoiners, much like in surfing communities.

They also discussed the use of Bitcoin in real-life situations. It strengthens local businesses and individuals, redefining financial freedom and economic empowerment. It teaches people to change their mindsets towards investing and saving.

Looking at a broader picture, Bitcoin adoption is about to become mainstream and accessible as seen in El Salvador’s progress. In Costa Rica, strengthening the Bitcoin communities leads to greater adoption at the grassroots. Integrating Bitcoin transactions transforms economic landscapes, and decentralized finance makes us less dependent on what traditional banking provides.

In this episode, discover why Bitcoin integration can empower communities and economies. Learn how other countries are putting up a Bitcoin festival to support Bitcoin adoption. Know the guests’ dreams for the future of surfing and Bitcoin. This episode is packed with many insights, there is so much to be excited about!

Thank you for tuning into this episode!

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Live From Bitcoin Beach

Transcript

Jon: 0:00

When you're in a group like that it's electric. If someone's new there, what are what are all these people interested? Well, what is what is going on here?

Paul: 0:16

Yeah, when I was I mean, I was a close it like, pretty much Maxi for like couple of years and never say close it because I'd never sought out one bitcoin meetup or anybody like minded and just one so my first time I did that was when I drove through here from California. And I timed it perfectly on purpose with the first Bitcoin Conference. And then just being out there surfing I finally got to meet some bitcoins I was kind of nervous. But then they gave me stuff to me, aha. I was like, oh, that's listen this guy for podcasts for years and I could just go walk up to him and talk to them and ask him questions like, for what? Such a cool community so if you're out there and you haven't sought out like minded people send it. It changed my life.

Mike Peterson: 1:29

We drag Jon away from the swan house there on the beach. Sorry, we had to pull away from the sunset be in the studio here. Actually, for those of you Swan, he has been working his butt off he is. This is a horrible job. You guys need to give him a raise. It's very challenging environment to be working in.

Jon: 1:53

Yeah, man. It's a sacrifice. But for you, you know, I'm happy to depart. The confines of this one house.

Mike Peterson: 2:05

And Paul from Bitcoin jungle, you guys just met like a month or two ago, right?

Paul: 2:12

We share a couple of common bonds though. So yeah, so you look at him like, Oh, I know this guy.

Mike Peterson: 2:18

So did you know each other from Twitter before Pacific Bitcoin connected in person or?

Paul: 2:25

I remember reading your bio and you're like, I'm trying to connect all the surfers or something like that and bitcoiners you're tweeting I'm like, Okay, well, that's something I like to do. I like Bitcoin. I like surfers. Let's get everybody together and have fun.

Jon: 2:36

Yeah, yeah, that was a great thread I just posted one day I'm like, I want to know like, who's a Bitcoiner or and who's really in surfing, just so for future reference. I can go through whomever in any part of the world. I just be like, hit all these people up like, Hey, what are you doing? There's waves here. Let's go surf. Maybe I can crash on your couch or something.

Paul: 2:57

That's crazy. That's I mean, that's really why we go to these events right to pick up more couches to sleep on

Mike Peterson: 3:10

So now I got people ask me, Hey, where's this one house? Where's this one house? I'm like, how do people know about this already? It just started. So you guys have only been doing for a couple of weeks, right?

Jon: 3:21

Yeah, this is, you know, it's a trial run. We've got a beautiful property that is just west of the main beach here in ozotic. And, yeah, it's been an amazing experience to experiment to be building community, both with like, with people like Paul or experienced Bitcoiners some clients coming through some employees as well of Swanton.

Mike Peterson: 3:51

I know I've been over there two or three times already to pick up people for podcasts. How many rooms do they have there? There's like everybody's standard.

Paul: 4:00

No, the funny thing is there's only three rooms and there's like three beds per room so we're really getting cozy at this one house.

Mike Peterson: 4:10

But I'm pretty sure it's gonna pop up now on Google Maps the swan house there people are gonna when you guys leave people are going to be disappointed when.

Jon: 4:18

Yeah, well, you know this we'll see what happens you know, we're coming up on a bull market.

Mike Peterson: 4:23

Bull market. It's time for you guys to purchase something down there.

Jon: 4:27

I think so. I'm all for it. And this is like I said like before, well, while we're talking to me days just a beautiful next of Bitcoin, while to my greatest passions, bitcoin and surfing but also like, they seem to have just a common bond like the connection nature, proof of work that's involved in it and there's no better place to my mind to have a first permanent Swan house but that's my opinion. These these are my own opinions not necessarily to swans.

Mike Peterson: 5:08

Alright, do you hear that? You have that it's he's made a commitment he's put an offer on a place down here. So, send bitcoin. Well, I think for me too, I mean, that was from the beginning Bitcoin Beach is obviously Bitcoin and surfing been together. The activities we do in the community have always revolved around surfing we feel like it's just a great family friendly way to get people out in the sun exercising building community together. So you had the Bitcoin component into it and it does just seem natural. I've had a lot of people that are not surfers asked me they're like, what is it with Bitcoin and surfing like, there seems like there's a lot of overlap there. What are your cosmic theories?

Jon: 5:58

Well, on the car ride back from San Salvador, we were kind of postulating that maybe all Bitcoiners are potentially Atlantean Sol Sol family. If you want to, like dive straight in, we're like a sea a sea faring, you know, race who have, you know, been drawn together through Bitcoin. But that's, you know, that's a little woo woo for a little less.

Paul: 6:32

Less cosmetic. It's like, what's your speech at adopting Bitcoin I for some reason, I've never made this like little connection in my brain. But surf culture was once niche. And now like, everywhere, everywhere around the world, like the rep in California, they, you know, trying to be like surfer, surfer is cool. And somehow, I think we got to make the Bitcoin brand that similar. And just like how all around the world, I only traveled for waves. So I ended up driving through here, but Bitcoin was like, perfect. But yeah, just as surfers chase waves, I think Bitcoiners will chase freedom and go to places that are going to be more free. And we see that in Costa Rica, where, like, the corners are coming down. And it's like, oh, my gosh, it's happening. And here's a couple steps ahead.

Mike Peterson: 7:19

Hundred percent, you look at the amount of development that has happened around the world based on surfing like that has put me in Bali. Places that were like nobody went to before. I mean, lots of places in you know, isolated places in Mexico. I mean, it doesn't matter how challenging the environment is, if the waves are good, surfers will go there. And so you see, first it's like, you know, people renting them a little place to pitch a tent, and then they build little hostel, and then I keep, you know, and then you go 20 years later, there's luxury resorts there that most of surfers can't afford to stay in. But it's all the people that come just because they want to be around the surfing. Yeah. And so Salvador has followed that, like they saw that potential with the surf. And early on we were pitching them hey, you can have the same thing with Bitcoin and it's, you know, a different crowd and a lot of them will come here to spend Bitcoin like what better tourists and ones that's motivated to come that like the activity that they're looking forward to spending money and place and the world's best money so yes, I think there are a lot of similarities as far as the development potential that it brings.

Jon: 8:35

And the waves here just absolutely world class.

Paul: 8:40

Yeah that's like my other sushi our like conundrum like come to Bitcoin jungle it's the best I'm like

Mike Peterson: 9:08

That's what my son he's like, Dad you grow in this place like we used to get flames by yourself.

Paul: 9:12

Your son is the reason why I came. A few of his posts like in the beginning days of what's going on down there, oh waves Bitcoin. Oh, yeah. And yeah, that I ended up driving.

Mike Peterson: 9:24

I tell him that he was the one. He's like how we used to be able to get out there by herself. Now it's all pack. The trade offs obviously and selfishly I prefer to be empty. But as far as the development and the opportunity and everything that's come in, that's much more important than you know me getting a couple more waves.

Paul: 9:47

What do you think the answer to that though, planting fake reef? sort of thing. Like imagine all the closed out beaches in the world. Like if you could just throw a fake reef on there and then everybody could surf and right, right

Mike Peterson: 9:59

There's a lot of people that have designed for anyways, that's it. ones but I don't think anybody's made one that actually worked. I saw this one. I don't know if it would actually work but it was innovative. It was actually like a piece of cloth that was tethered to the floor and you put air underneath it. Oh, so it just like what is this like, temporary relief, but then when there's a big storm or something, you can just, you know, take it down. And so it could be it could come and go I don't know if anybody's actually implement it. But yeah, there's especially in El Salvador. There's a ton of, it just had a little bit of reef or something. But we're trying to get somebody to build a wave park here. Because it's the weather's so nice that you could literally 365 days a year 24 hours a day you could have surfer surfing on it were the one like Kelly Slater's.

Paul: 10:57

I actually just I was looking at my strike thing the other day and from a couple years ago I saw like my old history of payments that it was like mama Rosa and Kelly Slater, all right, we gotta get, yeah. So I told myself first wave I am just gonna pump and cruise down the line and make the whole thing just play it up and no, I got off as barrel. It's pretty weird feeling on that wave and I just like it was so ugly. It was like stances right over the falls is horrible. I got to start like six waves only and then the rest of the time you're in the lineup praying somebody falls yeah just praying in sick we had like a mod on the ski who's just like this legend from chope who just like yelling at you like get no go like trying to help you through like the wave and everything. But it was unbelievable. I can't wait to go

Mike Peterson: 12:21

My one buddy who had because you have to rent out back. the whole place. And so nowadays, but he's like if you organize it, then you can strategically put it you put the guys that aren't very good when you're at the secondary union. He's like there's this whole strategy to it. I was like, I don't if I'm gonna spend that kind of money. I'm gonna go when it's warm. Yeah, I gotta wear a wetsuit. So but if they added in El Salvador, I mean, literally, you could have year round perfect weather. So yeah, Kelly, time to build a wave park down here in El Salvador.

Jon: 14:05

I think the challenge with that is you need a lot of flatland. Right?

Mike Peterson: 14:09

Yeah. But there is a lot of flatland over by where the airport is. The country is very flat. I mean, there's a lot of areas that would be perfect and, and people fly in like the one in California fly in from all over the world. Yes, that one. It's not. And El Salvador is kind of central to everything. So it would be perfect location.

Jon: 14:30

You seen the surf flakes design?

Mike Peterson: 14:32

It's which one is that one?

Jon: 14:34

It's an Australian company.

Mike Peterson: 14:35

Is that the plunger one? Yeah

Jon: 14:38

That one looks cool, too.

Mike Peterson: 14:39

I think of it as a bit of more and more waves, right? I'd be happy with any of them so you know.

Paul: 14:51

You know, keep ushering in hyper bit quantization. I'm sure that people citadels will be including wave pools. I know one guy already doing that. But yeah, I'm so bullish.

Mike Peterson: 15:02

Yeah. And when Bitcoin hits 10 million I think

Jon: 15:06

Speaking of Citadel, you have a beautiful city studio here.

Mike Peterson: 15:11

And this is all Andy's creation. He's the mastermind behind that. So yeah, you guys got to spend more time down here. I mean you got a studio you can use. Yeah, he just has to build a wave Park. That's all yeah.

Paul: 15:26

Basically one up there is that one? Why did you come to Atlanta in the beginning?

Mike Peterson: 15:30

Yeah, on a asurf trip. Yeah, I came down here for a week with a buddy. Actually we surfed the whole time. And when we were here, and then came back and I was like, I gotta buy a place here so we came back. And there would, we looked at a couple properties and students all but the lady was helping us she had a house here and I was on thing. So she showed us the house actually, I live in now. And I was like, alright, we'll make an offer. And then they accepted it. And we're like, this is this pre Bitcoin. So it was a problem of how do you get the money down here? So that was a crazy me and a buddy went in on the place and we wound up. We're like, Okay, well, how do we move the money down? And the lady's like, well, I've had somebody before, just like, wire it to me to my personal account, and then all like, that sounds a little sketchy. But no, he signed the title. Yeah. But you know, we've been to our house, we're like, alright, well, just, you know, I mean, it was a risk. But we, we said that we showed up, we're like, hopefully she's they're not on, you know, vacation in the Cribbean with our money but it all went through. But now with Bitcoin, it's so much easier, especially, you know, find somebody who's willing to accept Bitcoin on the buyer side. And there's a lot of there's companies now too, that will serve as intermediaries. And yeah, it makes it so much easier. It's amazing. All the things Bitcoin solves. Yeah. So does this one do that this one, I think that's, that's one of the things one could do is come down here and be liquidity provider for real estate purchases.

Jon: 17:11

That's a great idea. There's all kinds of what I love. What I've loved about being here is just exploring and learning about how open the country is to business like, like they want encouraging growth or encouraging companies to come in. And there's all kinds of opportunities. And that's one of the things I'm looking forward to bringing back to LA talking to talking to leadership about for sure.

Mike Peterson: 17:40

It's such a positive feeling here, like, you feel like you could do anything and the US it's like, everything's like a reason you can't do it. But here, it's like, you know, the sky's the limit.

Paul: 17:52

Do you feel like that in 2004?

Mike Peterson: 17:56

I did to some extent, I mean, I felt like that, as far as you know, you didn't have all the regulation and rules, you know, my kids could still ride in the back of the pickup as we as we're building things you didn't, you know, you kind of dreamed it up, you could build it, you didn't have to worry about, you know, crazy permitting process. So, but at that time, you didn't have the optimism and the excitement in the population. They were they were dealing with, you know, extreme poverty, having the highest murder rate in the world.

Paul: 18:28

How did you do with that fact?

Mike Peterson: 18:32

I, from for me, I'm just not a very fearful person. I just doesn't, I don't know. Probably not healthy, I should probably be more fearful than I am

Paul: 18:43

exactly the same way.

Mike Peterson: 18:45

I'm just always one of those people that even when it came to like surfing or snowboarding, anything like that I had, like very little skill, but also no fear. So you put those things together, and I can do okay. Yeah. So I think the people who are just even then when things were bad that people were just so warm and friendly. I mean, you guys have experienced that now, there's just there's just a openness, you feel like, they'll help you out if you have a problem. I mean, if you know here, if I get a flat tire, suddenly a bunch of people stopped to try to help in the US, you know, you're on your own. So it was just a it was a very different feel. It was also you know, and just to be completely like open as a foreigner, you didn't face the same challenges as the locals did. There was kind of the sense that you are off limits for the gangs, they just didn't want. The Americans had that reputation of fighting back more and and like causing more problems. And then also if something did happen to a foreigner, the repercussions from the army and the police would be much stiffer. So in general, they kind of left foreigners alone. So it was definitely safer for us than it was as for the local population.

Jon: 20:02

right, that's, I was talking to Matt, who owns the property town next to the party. Yeah.

Mike Peterson: 20:10

That's a beautiful property.

Jon: 20:12

It was absolutely gorgeous. Shout out to Matteo who had the house and it was. It was just finished. Like that was the first event first activity that they did.

Mike Peterson: 20:24

I think they were pushing to have that ready.

Jon: 20:26

Yeah, I was like a little concerned us, was here a month ahead of time and kind of visiting the property. I'm, like, interesting. Here. They seem to be you know, working, but they pulled it off. They pulled it together. It was beautiful. But he was saying that, telling me telling us stories of like, coming out of the bar super late at night, Miss missing the bus home, trying to just like staggers way back from from San Salvador. Back to Zante. And the local was super late at night. They were laughing at me. They're like, what is this? He never felt like that much in danger. Yeah, in that sense.

Paul: 21:16

And you speak perfect Spanish by now. Yeah.

Mike Peterson: 21:18

Now not perfect. I speak perfect Spanish for somebody who learned in their 40s. My kids, my kids grew up here. So their Spanish is fun. They always make fun of me when I speak but I can mean anything I need to convey. My kids speaks perfect Spanish in fact, they speak Salvador in Spanish because we couple years ago, we were traveling somewhere and, and my daughter was talking to somebody and they're like, you sound like you from El Salvador. But obviously you shouldn't look back. Right? Yeah. Yeah. So it's, it's funny. They even have the local accent lingo.

Paul: 22:16

Yeah. How do you say dude here, dude? Yeah. Like Costa Rica is by Mexico way. Yeah.

Mike Peterson: 22:26

You guys it worked for me. So I'm thinking way but they don't see that here. It's it's

Jon: 22:32

So now what about sweet?

Paul: 22:37

Chiva, chiva? Yeah.

Mike Peterson: 22:38

No, that's been because of the chiva wall. That's been a little bit so. But yeah, historically, that was. That was the the slang I remember when they first announced he was just like I said, it's a goat wallet. What's the chiva means goat? Like utterly? And, but it was slang for you know, like, cool. And so it was funny when? Okay, well, they're doing a goat wallet. Alright.

Paul: 23:12

In Costa Rica, the guy who started Bitcoin jungle Lee. He's like this perfect combination of technical speak Spanish. Nice. He's like, super laid back and super laid back and mellow. Yeah. And it's like, I almost feel like this person this human is behind the bitcoin is just really what made it take off down there. What do you think it was about you that helped me being here since 2004?

Mike Peterson: 23:36

I think really, it was a local team. I mean, it was. Yeah, just having the the team. And the people from the beginning just then them having the trust and the community. And I think too, that people knew that. We wanted the community to be successful. We wanted the youth to stay out of the gangs, we wanted for people to really reach their potential. So I think because of that, when we introduced Bitcoin, it was like, okay, they see this as a helpful tool, where if we were to just came in and like, hey, use Bitcoin, use Bitcoin and be like, Who are these scammers and what are they trying to get out of us? Yeah, so I think that was and the other thing I had helped us was, I'm just too stupid to know that it wouldn't work. Because, you know, that's what all the, if I would have been gone to a bunch of Bitcoin conferences before, I would have been talked out of it, right. But it's actually rescale actually, when I started going to because I was like, we were already committed. And then I started going between conferences, and I was like, Dude, you're an idiot. Nobody's ever gonna use Bitcoin to pay for their coffee and it's never gonna work. And we're just like, well, we're committed. So we just pushed through unfortunately, lightning at that time. Originally, we're doing everything on chain and then fees started go up. And so we switched to lightning and I was like, No, lightning is not ready. It's 18 months out, it's it doesn't work. I'm like, Well, I don't know, it's working. Like, maybe I'm just too stupid, but it's, we're doing it and the stores are accepting it. Yeah, you know, they're cashing out when they need to at the ATM. And so I think that was, I think sometimes if you listen too much to the experts, you'll never actually do anything. So a little naivety sometimes helps.

Paul: 25:28

Yeah, maybe the love when people come to visit me, I just use Bitcoin, like it's nothing, it just blows your mind. Touching, seeing it like that and trading it for coffee. And Twitter always loves that too. That meme is like ingrained in us. We'll never do that coffee. But also, I'm wondering, you know, because the rabbit hole is deep, but just simply accepting bitcoin and using it as money. That's like almost more of a learning process or just like a different because like at the market and Costa Rica, maybe they don't all learn why Bitcoin why Bitcoin like Bitcoin, but just the first touch point of people coming and wanting to spend it and trading it. I don't know, I feel like that's a really big education right there. And I kind of wonder as Bitcoin scales, like, how much will we even know?

Mike Peterson: 26:20

Well, I think it's important, I think that it is important for that to be somebody's first touch point or one of their first touch points. Because if you, if you try to explain everything to them beforehand, they psych themselves out. This is too complicated. But if you just do a transaction with them, that's easy. And then they become interested in Okay, wait, how does this actually work? Why is there value to it? And how is that why is the price go up and down? So really, it's getting some bitcoin in people's hands and having them do a few transactions, and then letting them be the one that like comes to you rather than you trying to be like, hey, you need to listen to this, you need to do this.

Jon: 27:02

Yeah, that's that's a huge thing that's fascinated me about wondering about the question of Bitcoin adoption, right? We just had the adopting Bitcoin Conference, swans mission is to create 10 million new Bitcoiners in the US, right? So wondering, like, what is the best way to advance Bitcoin adoption? And most of what you see going on in Bitcoin, Twitter, and a lot of different projects and apps or like, proper design, user interface, and everything like that, and then and then proper information, like getting all the logic, right, having podcasts where they're diving deep into into the tech layers.

Mike Peterson: 27:52

We're gonna be interested in that stuff. They're like my wife, she's like, she's like, I'm not a Bitcoin or I'm like, You made literally hundreds of Bitcoin transactions. Like yeah, but I don't really care about that stuff. I'm like, Yeah, but you have actually used Bitcoin more than most people to go to all the conferences a lot of them don't ever actually use it like you're actually using it you understand that? The technical challenges the you know, and why it actually winds up being the easiest way she doesn't do it because it's ideological. She does it because it's just easiest. So I think that's what we're gonna see more of.

Paul: 28:27

Yeah, convenience. Yeah, everything. And yeah, in Costa Rica, and you saw that we've made like a local off ramp and on ramp. And that's huge now because it's like, I'll just tell a quick story because I thought it was cool. I needed a board to rent at the beach and industry in Costa Rica. I was like yo, we're friends. I'll pay you in Bitcoin just download this app make username Okay, boom paid him and then his friend and then I showed him how to cash out right in case you wanted to and then that day his friend went and orange pilled at this lobster guy lobster restaurant without like anything. It was amazing. Just because they're they do have the option now to change it between Fiat and Bitcoin which is pretty huge. Because everybody in Costa Rica has a phone number that's linked to their bank account. And that also means for us Bitcoiners that we can just download Bitcoin junk on whatever SIM card and then do just like I bought gas has Bitcoin, any taxi driver, and you can always show them how it works too. And it's just like, hey, we need an army down there to.

Mike Peterson: 29:33

You know, and that's and that's, you know, I'll get in arguments but discussions with people because there's people that say, like, oh, we shouldn't have onramp you know, those type of off ramps we should keep you know, it should be a closed system to really be a circular bitcoin economy and I agree in the long run, but what we found in the short run in order to get people interested in accepting bitcoin they have to know that they can get out because in their mind to Fiat is still real money. So they have to be able to convert to real money. But then over time, they start realizing Wait a fee, it's not real money, Bitcoin is real. And so it is. But if they didn't have the those off ramp options, they wouldn't have been willing to accept it to begin with. So I think that's one thing I always stress with Bitcoin is like, no, it's important. There be ATMs, it's important to be banking, Rails, all these things are important. Because otherwise, if they do accept it, the first chance they get, they're going to sell it. But if they know, hey, I can sell it tomorrow, it's not the next day, then they're like, late. It's like over time, it's going up in value versus the dollar. And so yeah, I'll hang in there.

Paul: 30:46

Have you seen changes in individuals?

Mike Peterson: 30:50

That was the first like most eye opening thing for us, as we were doing programs with the youth early days. And saving had never been, like a cultural thing here, it was in the talk to people about the importance of deferred gratification saving accumulating capital start business and the responses, I was like, we just don't make enough money. There's, it's impossible to save here. And, and that seems reasonable. I mean, the salaries are very low. And the cost of living is, is not that much, you know, lower than the US for a lot of like food items and basic things like that, you know, most of that stuff's like international market. And so I thought, oh, maybe that's the case. But we saw when we started paying them in Bitcoin, it switched something in their mind, because they're like, I think bitcoins going up, you know, this level in the next year. So if I spend it now, if I wait, I can buy two of these in the future or three. And so they start that takes them down the rabbit hole of start wondering what what is actually money, and they start thinking about those things. And it really, you know, they say, you know, it's kind of a cliche, but they say like, you don't change Bitcoin, Bitcoin changes you. But it's true, like we've seen it, here. And so that's what makes me so excited about the Bitcoin project that Bitcoin beach and what we're doing is seeing the way that it impacts lives. And that's why we spend so much time now focusing on all these other circular economies around the world. Because it's just so exciting to see people come out of poverty and real, like economic development happen. I mean, there's been, you know, for for decades, for centuries, there's been groups trying to do economic development around the world.

Paul: 32:39

You were one of the you're a missionary, you still are like,

Mike Peterson: 32:41

Yeah we came down here working with with different missionaries. And so yeah, from the beginning, that was very critical to what we were doing. But I saw such a mixed impact of like dependency created in certain communities, and weird distortion, and unhealthy ways of the economic realities. And so I was always kind of like wrestling, like, hey, we feel called to help these people in dire circumstances, but we need to make sure we're actually like, benefiting them long term. And so when we switched to using Bitcoin, it just kind of changed all of that incentive structure. And we saw for the first time that I'm having this sense of, Well, hey, I can like, do this, and I can start a business and I can save for the first time. And so that's what's so exciting is to see, you know, Bitcoin being adopted around the world. And these places that all these different aid groups have, you know, poured into and haven't really changed. Look at places like Haiti, it's has like,

Jon: 33:43

the highest thing so much.

Mike Peterson: 33:46

Think it has the highest aid per capita in the world. And it's like one of the poorest countries because that's just not bringing change. So I'm very bullish on the long term impact of economic development using Bitcoin.

Paul: 34:02

Because of the way it changes the brain at the various

Mike Peterson: 34:04

Because that is the most crucial thing. It's not just people aren't poor because of lack of resources. Usually, it's the education it's the mindset, it's the way they view the world. And so when you give people the feeling like wow, I can actually do this and they put themselves out there they start deferring gratification and saving it just has this ripple effect. Would you guys see in El Salvador, you see all booming building everywhere. That's crazy. That's like roaring as the rest of the world is like kind of teetering on recession. Things are booming here. I mean, it's it's just a different feel. It's palatable, you can feel like the excitement in the air.

Jon: 34:48

Yeah, it's it's so refreshing to be in an environment where you have that like, possibility that where you can think about an idea of some like we were saying earlier, it's something to do whether it's business and actually see a legitimate path where you can make it happen right away. Whereas there's this lingering sense in the west where you just have this like, appearance of cultural decay and, and a lot of hopelessness, homelessness rampid in so many of the cities, but obviously you have enclaves of growth and everything.

Mike Peterson: 35:33

But I think just the overall sense of what's possible, that's the thing that I think is different here. Because I mean, we see people coming from Europe, from Australia, and you know, you talk to them, they're like, just don't feel like there's like any future and like, coming from Spain or Italy. Those are like developed countries. Do you think it'd be more opportunity there? No, it just feels like there's way more opportunity here in El Salvador. Right, in a sense of like, anything's possible. So it's almost like this is like the New West that everybody's kind of rushed into. So it's fun. It's fun place to be.

Jon: 36:07

That's for sure. Please, help, too.

Paul: 36:29

January 2020. It's gonna be an interesting festival. Yeah, definitely.

Mike Peterson: 36:34

You guys are out there. Sure. You get your tickets.

Paul: 36:38

Well, I'll just tell one story that is kind of why brought up the question about changing people's actually caught a little glance of this Bitcoin on, you know, at the market, and I was like, wow, they're stacking? And you just wonder, like, if they would have done that with Fiat, it's probably the answer is probably no. So it's fascinating to see that happen. I know a restaurant is stacked a whole coin. And it was is wild. In terms of low so in Bitcoin jungle, it is more focused on Bitcoin tourism at first. But now with this local off ramp. I'm hoping that to plant more seeds within like the locals. And, you know, instead of just like these restaurants and what not.

Mike Peterson: 37:29

Has to help with local adoption, just how is that?

Paul: 37:32

Hundred percent. Haven't been back for like, I think it pretty much we just started that like, maybe a month when I was there. I was just telling everybody.

Mike Peterson: 37:41

I saw Paul and Paula. Why am I blinking? Lee. Yeah Lee. There was thing that HRF did in Nashville. So Lee was telling us about this. I was like pull that off.

Paul: 37:58

I'm not making any money down here.

Mike Peterson: 38:00

But I mean, just the fact that they're able to like that the banking system hasn't locked them out that the government has locked them out that they've like, made it work. I was just like, wow, this is amazing. It's so cool. And then talking to Francis about it. And he said the same thing. Like, yeah, we're losing money on every transaction, but it's increasing awareness and adoption.

Paul: 38:22

Exactly. So yeah, come down and plug our circular economy circular, it's becoming more circular by the day. And it's so cool, like everybody lives there, because there's Bitcoin propaganda and it's just questions and, you know, little touch points. So just help and send the signal to everybody that this is possible as this is a thing and, and hopefully will be more of a thing around the world.

Mike Peterson: 38:42

Ya know, when you keep the the air quotes of Bitcoin circular economy, because you do get criticisms on that, like, well, it's not truly circular, because it's leaving at some point. And that's true, but it's, it's a process like every stage, you're, you're like closing the loop a little bit

Paul: 39:00

And like, Yes, I asked a lot of people like, Yo, what are more. you guys do with this? Well, sometimes I use it, mostly, they say they use it to save, and then sometimes they'll go buy stuff with it. Yeah. That's awesome. That's a little circle, little closing man.

Mike Peterson: 39:14

And when we get into the next bull market, our employees are going to start requesting, you know, more of them will request to be paid in Bitcoin. And I don't know if you saw the announcement that Galloway made but they are the second biggest distributor I think in Central America, like just like they're actually incentivizing all of their stores to pay in Bitcoin giving them a 5% discount if they pay in Bitcoin, which is huge. I actually didn't catch that last part. Oh, yeah. So so the the company itself, not Gala. The company itself is the one giving the discount because they said for them. It solves this huge logistical problem because of course all these mom and pop stores, most of them don't have bank accounts. So they all paid the drivers in cash. So then you have the Drivers, you know, the accounting of that the security issues, the, all the different things, they're able to just bypass that and, and plus, you know, I'm sure the drivers a lot of times we're like waiting that gotta get changed for the people and slows them down.

Paul: 40:14

Convenience is going to help happen big time.

Mike Peterson: 40:18

So now that the stores are gonna be like, no, please pay me in Bitcoin because I get a 5% discount if I pay my bill in Bitcoin. So you're gonna see, I mean, I think long term this is going to be huge for actually making it genuine circular economy.

Paul: 40:35

Yeah, I mean, don't you think that place? I mean, this is a big idea. But couldn't like companies like Walmart or in the future? or Amazon even offer like a discount for lightning? Because it's final? It's, you know.

Mike Peterson: 40:52

It's final, they say I mean, it's final, and the fees they save from the credit cards, how to add? Like, it's, it's a no brainer, it's coming. It's just a matter. And I just seem so I think for them, like there needs to be enough people. It's kind of a chicken in the egg type. People wanting to use that method to make it worthwhile for them to add in. Yeah, yeah. But longer term, yeah, I would not want to be Visa or MasterCard, because they are going to be pushed out of the picture. It's just.

Jon: 41:26

yeah, there's also the fact that most of these corporations are not necessarily running based on like, as a normal profitable company off T and L , they're usually making money off of decoration. That's the way that our fiat system works. And the finance guys can break all that down like it's that's kind of what we're after kind of shooting, getting that dragon at the heart what bitcoin is.

Mike Peterson: 41:58

But I think longer term just because it, it just works so much better. Like that is going to be what pushes companies to adopt a Bitcoin standard, it's not going to be an ideal lot ideological thing, it's not going to be because their freedom loving, it's going to be like, Oh, this just makes more sense. And it works better. And, and the credit card companies have basically been like extorting us for, you know, all this time. It's like they're just really rent seekers and that system, and so they'll get rid of that. And it'll allow them to bring prices down, and everybody benefits. So it'll see like a societal benefit from that. Because I know, as a business owner, in the US, like, you have to take credit cards, because that's true. But, you know, we want paying probably about 4%. So I think last year, we paid like, I don't know, 40 or$50,000, in credit card fees, like I have to raise my price of those items, to a for everybody. So those are always passed on to the customer. So really, the credit card companies are just rent seekers that everybody's paying for. So if we can make them go away and make it happen, the system operate more efficient. And it's not only that, you have to wait, usually at least two days for settlement. And then he have these chargebacks that it's a nightmare. So Bitcoin is just kind of solve all of those issues. And the best part is it's starting, like in the smaller businesses first, like what you guys are seeing in Costa Rica. It's small businesses that are getting onboard first. So I love that.

Paul: 43:37

Yeah. And they got to taste their first little bullishness. Oh, to change minds, you're talking about?

Mike Peterson: 43:45

Well, I, I think it's going to be insane here in El Salvador when we have the bull cycle really kick in? Yeah. Because all these people now at least know people that can help them onboard them, or most of them have their own wallet set up. So they have all of this and so it's because a lot of times that's a hurdle, just the technical aspect of figuring out how do you actually buy bitcoin? It's confusing. I picked a lot of like, smart people in the US and they're just like, it's it's not that hard to do. Obviously, they can just go to Swan and Swan makes it easy, but it's it there's a sense in their mind that like, Yeah, but I don't know I have to do it. Here. They already have it all. So they're just gonna be like, Oh, wait, no pay me in Bitcoin, because I think Bitcoin is going up against the dollar and it's gonna be wild. So I think people are way under estimating how big an impact we're gonna see in the next couple of years. So if someone's gonna buy a house down here, they'd better buy it soon.

Jon: 44:52

Well, I already, I mean, I was speaking to some of the property owners here bought like two years ago and they're like, really glad I did that. It is apparent, I had heard that is one of the most expensive parts of the country.

Mike Peterson: 45:06

And it's the most expensive part of the country, I would guess.

Jon: 45:11

Yeah, it's like the Malibu.

Mike Peterson: 45:13

Obviously all the natural beauty all the you know, good waves. But on top of that, because it was the center of Bitcoin beach and everything here, the Bitcoiners all want to be here. So you have. And with all of these Bitcoin story there was all this press coverage, you know, 60 minutes, Bloomberg. And, but even the FUD articles had beautiful pictures of the beach. So like everybody, maybe they're even not Bitcoiners but they saw because of a Bitcoin related story and wanted to come there. So it's become like the hotspot.

Paul: 45:48

What do you say to the people are like, Oh, it's Joe's, like, yes, most expensive place, and then we'll say the people that are all Wow, gentrification.

Mike Peterson: 45:57

I think it's, I think we should acknowledge that there are downsides with development. But one of the things in El Santo is most of the prime properties was never owned by locals, it was always there was always vacation homes it was. So it's not like foreigners are coming in and replacing locals. It's foreigners are buying homes from wealthy Salvadorans from the capital city. So I don't feel too bad about that. But we have like us as a project, have wanted to make sure that the locals don't get pushed out that they benefit from the growth here. And so we've partnered with new stories, a housing nonprofit, and we did like the first was like a pilot of eight homes, and that the locals could they have, we think it's important that people pay some, because if when you get something for free, you don't value it. So the idea is to do something at cost, it winds up being actually below cost, but with interest free, and extend mortgages to the people here and allow them to pay in Bitcoin. So there's, we did the first eight homes, and then there's another 122 homes going in right now. And they will actually be paying I think it winds up being like $50 equivalent a month in Bitcoin for 12 years, but they own houses in. They withdraw fees, titles, they're building equity from the get go. And so for, that's been important to us to make sure like, hey, has development comes in? Let's make sure the locals are the ones that are benefiting. Yeah, that's great. And it's the first I think widespread Bitcoin mortgage payment system and it was done. Not like, because though this will, you know, look cool, if we're doing on Bitcoin, it was actually functional. It was the new story, it said that in the past, when they were trying to have these long term mortgages, they actually had to have somebody full time in the community for like 12 years, just collecting the small payments. And so it was a huge amount of overhead, just do the payment collection, because none of the people are banked. And most of them don't have car so the only way to really collect was the half somebody's like actually in the community doing it. Now all these people can just zap it right from their wallet was a lightning payment. Obviously, we don't denominate the mortgage in Bitcoin because we don't want them to be punished when that goes on a run. So it's denominated in dollars but then they send the equivalent in SATs at the time of payment and so it's they have a record they can show that they made the payment and so it works super smooth. So yeah, that's I think, I think it's we should always be aware of of anytime there's change that comes that there's going to be good and bad aspects, but we want to make sure that that the locals would benefit the most from the and just the local businesses that are being created. You know, the jobs that are paying significantly more than they have in the past and I mean, sure I'm I'm too like fat and old now to catch waves because there's all these new surf surfers coming in getting it but but other than that, I think it's hasn't changed too much. You know, as far as the sense of community feel here.

Paul: 49:27

Nice. I got to know have you caught a wave, like from Punta Roca, all the way to the pier.

Mike Peterson: 49:32

I haven't actually ever surfed Punta Roca

Paul: 49:35

No way! Can you just tell me if you will?

Mike Peterson: 49:39

I've been like a few times and every time I've been there, it was been blown out. But it's you know, you get older you get lazy and there's good waves out front and so to not have to get in the car and go anywhere. Put the mongos my favorite wave. So I we have a place down there. So I sort of put the Mongo quite a bit. Yeah but it is embarrassing that I haven't surf Punto Roca. It is definitely a world class. My son have surf it but yeah I need to have to go out there next time you guys go. When it's firing it is but it's just doesn't handle a super big crowd. Yeah, and it gets crowded.

Paul: 50:52

Yeah, man. It's so abundant rights film. It's crazy to bed you're goofy but you don't seem to care.

Jon: 51:01

Yeah, I'm in the line of the right self and I've been like loving it just working on my backside turns and down bottom turns. But I mean, this is we're blown all the secrets but there happens to be a really good left your nose on to it. Yeah. And do you see why you served every morning?

Mike Peterson: 51:22

Well, it's not because I'm regular foot but that laughs usually what I surf because it's right in front of my house and it's like I think the left that especially on that peak the left's better it's more I mean it's just fast down the line.

Paul: 51:41

You know, when I first came down here I swore to myself I wouldn't go left but I ended up going left on that way.

Mike Peterson: 51:48

When it's really big that writes fun, especially if you take it all the way out from the reef and connects all the way almost to this place and so you can catch it all the way.

Jon: 51:58

Our other buddy Blake who's down here he said he caught one today that up at the point the river around the river mouth and rode it all the way into the day.

Mike Peterson: 52:06

Yeah, you can get those that they have a name for that whether they call it in.

Paul: 52:12

They call it, the royal, and if you get a cover up it's a royal which cheese.

Jon: 52:25

Yeah, it was I was surprised to use like good barrel section. And then right.

Mike Peterson: 52:30

It when it gets over a certain size that it doesn't have it gets right. Yeah, it can even look like decent, but there's so much water moving around that. I think I didn't even break your board last time you went out or

Jon: 52:45

Yeah I folded it. I broke mine. Yeah, the other day too. was that. However, a nice bitcoiner brought me a new one. I had this exchange. He was in North Carolina and because of Bitcoin, he's like, I'll do this for you. And that's great, great community. So I'm stoked about that.

Mike Peterson: 53:04

That I wish we had a picture of your board to put up here but the sub show me like keeps looking for places that have broke upstairs like. You get cotton soup washing machine there and just you gotta you gotta paddle one side or the other if you think you can make it out. But every time you're about to set comes right.

Jon: 53:38

Yeah, thankfully, the I may have made pretty good friends with the board repair guy here. Yeah. It's it's very reasonably priced. Basically, he's charged me 50 bucks just to fix a broken completely, like buckled in. It's alright, I'll be able to power through the section better with that.

Mike Peterson: 54:08

So you got to make El Zonta a home or what do we need to do to make this permanent Swan house down here?

Jon: 54:16

Skewed question. I think it's what I think big picture what you were kind of describing with the way how you your contribution to the community here was what initially made And talking about mining, the mining process. people open to the idea of Bitcoin, right? It wasn't like laying out the logical And I think what what quarry sees and what what swan is Yeah, like hard money, this kind of stuff. So I think with what we're able to do, as a Bitcoin communities very unique, we're able to, we have this tremendous network of relationships, like we just mentioned the community. And you can call that the social layer of Bitcoin, right? Where it's, we as people who are using the Bitcoin network and rely on it for storing our wealth, we're also connecting with each other, because what do you use money for you buy goods and services from other people, right? So like, the more we're able to connect and deepen those relationships within, within our community, and it's not going to happen with everyone, like not fret, definitely not friends with all big, that's for sure. But you know, we have these, like, you have your tribe within the greater community. trying to do in general is like, really contribute. That's pretty much what their marketing campaign has been up until this point, or our marketing has been is to contribute to the community contribute really good, high quality Bitcoin education. But like, as we've pointed out, the education points as logical and as truthful as they might be, they're not always the most attractive things to push someone over the edge in terms of like actually coming to use Bitcoin and see its importance. So all that to say, I think, cultivating strong Bitcoin communities, and contributing to grassroots circular Bitcoin adoption. Operations like Bitcoin beach and Berlin, and the bitcon jungle and so many others that are popping up throughout the world that has tremendous power. Also just regular meetups all around the world that are just popping up. That's been a huge passion of mine just like help curate events and help people get together.

Mike Peterson: 57:11

we can maybe do one but then people will probably like be you know, tired of it. But no, it's like, every month it gets bigger and more people show up. And that's poverty.

Jon: 57:32

Yeah, it was awesome. And that's what when you're in a group like that it's electric. If someone's new there what are what are all these people interested? Which is what is going on?

Mike Peterson: 57:51

Why are they so happy and excited and this is magic.

Jon: 57:57

Like cult members or something?

Paul: 57:58

Yeah, when I was I was a closeted like, pretty much Maxi for like a couple of years. And never, I say closeted because I never sought out one bitcoin meetup or anybody like minded and just one so my first time I did that was when I drove through here from California, for the and I timed it perfectly on purpose with the first Bitcoin Conference. And then just being out there surfing I finally got to meet some bitcoins. I was kind of nervous. But then they gave me a free tomahawk. I was like, oh, that's this this guy for podcasts for years. And I could just go walk up to him and talk to them and ask him my questions. Like what? It's such a cool community. So if you're out there and you haven't sought out like minded people send it.

Jon: 58:41

Hundred percent. And that's, that's what is. I mean, yeah, go on and on and on all these benefits being connected to the Bitcoin community. But one of them is the fact that like, we're trying to lift each other up, like the more like, the more eyeballs that Paul has on his Instagram, Tik Tok, like, the more influence he has to share about Bitcoin to other people and, and or just to be an example to other to others as like someone living a free life and a beautiful quality, healthy lifestyle that's empowered by Bitcoin. And, and it's, it's like, what is we're not we're not really with Bitcoin, we're not selling like money. People use money. We're selling freedom, right? And then it's up to people what they want that to create their life to look like with with all of that freedom.

Mike Peterson: 59:49

So your job is basically you just get to go set up these funds and try to figure out yeah, I'm talking to you I'm trying to figure out how to get you fired and steal your job from I'm a people person. I help people like I come here hang out this one house. No, I know enough to know that, you know, that's the 5% we see it's the other 95% deals with all the problems that make it all happen.

Jon: 1:00:22

Yeah, it's a labor of love but that's it's an absolute pleasure for me to combine like a passion for bringing people together plus Bitcoin and surfing and for the for the past like couple months that's been super, very special. And especially surfing swans, that was pretty fun.

Mike Peterson: 1:00:44

Well, we were super thankful for you guys for sponsoring the events after adopting Bitcoin we always have like a Bitcoin week here. So right sponsor the meetup. You sponsored the swim race and all the other activities that we had. I don't know. Do we have any pictures of the Swan surfer?

Paul: 1:01:06

Let's go, how do you swim spike came in?

Jon: 1:01:17

And then while they're swimming we did the hard work. Swans to go for a competition. So we had separated into groups. We had a few different key metrics. It's the size of the wave.

Mike Peterson: 1:01:42

The year before we had like for the swim race there was like three people that had to get rescued like as they were trying to go out in the lineup like got like smashed.

Jon: 1:02:00

I think even that they both got flipped over. It was like struggling out there, the engine.

Mike Peterson: 1:02:08

Yeah, I can there's a lot of water that's moving out there. So I was glad that it was smaller. Because when it's that big and you got all the swimmers out there, I'm always just like, yeah, everybody makes it back.

Paul: 1:02:20

And everybody wants to come and surf too.

Mike Peterson: 1:02:23

Smaller so, but I'm bummed that I missed the the swan surf contes So next year.

Jon: 1:02:32

We had some local kiddos joining into this great team.

Mike Peterson: 1:02:38

Well, if it's if it's big next year, we'll have to do toe in on those Swans.

Jon: 1:02:49

I happen to know the owner of the company who makes those swans. We can make the less special like towable suitable Swans, it could happen. I do have a fifteen foot tall Swan to make that happen.

Paul: 1:03:17

Bitcoin be too that'd be a nice little attention grab.

Jon: 1:03:29

Awesome. Yeah, it was like, that's the I don't know, this is just an example of how, how like, just having fun, like, having a good time going, going to the beach and goofing off with your friends. First for some reason that that in that activity in and of itself can like help promote Bitcoin adoption. How beautiful is that? Right? Yeah.

Mike Peterson: 1:03:59

No people like, wow, whatever they're having. I want that. So, being here in El Salvador, do you have any sense of oh, maybe I should move here and say Costa Rica, or do you feel pretty much like Costa Rica is where it's at for you.

Paul: 1:04:14

If Costa Rica does something crazy or like because now we know this freedom country. We're kind of gray area Costa Rica. So if they crossed some line or something. Yeah, motels out or I'm back.

Mike Peterson: 1:04:28

All right. Well, we're excited about what's happened in Costa Rica. So we want to poach you. Right. So I don't need another good surfer here.

Jon: 1:04:40

Come visit once a year.

Mike Peterson: 1:04:42

So is there anything we haven't talked about that we need to? Did we miss anything other than what amazing job and how much how hard you're working here. Of course he's listening.

Jon: 1:04:55

Well, I just wanted to say another shout out to the Bitcoin freedom festival I'm really looking forward to attending that it's going to be amazing.

Mike Peterson: 1:05:05

What are the dates again?

Paul: 1:05:06

So it's January 18 through the 20th Okay it's gonna be at maybe a little minor Citadel if you want to call it that a guy in the corner awesome guy. Hope if you go get to listen to him speak it's like the topic we nerd out about the most like the philosophy and like spirituality and Bitcoin this guy's great listen to him speak. And if you scroll down there, there's it's gonna be more than just a normal Bitcoin event. It's very kid We're gonna go go to the market and drop sets around for like, friendly. great organic food, the food down there, the fruits, unbelievable. It will go to the beach, slick, holistic treatments of plant medicine. You might get weird out there. And we'll just have a good time. So come cruise through January 18 to the 20th, load up your lightning wallets and you really don't have to spend with the syn pay off ramp. You really don't need that often.

Mike Peterson: 1:06:02

No, I'm it. I'm excited. I'll be there. I'm speaking. So I'll be my first time in Costa Rica. It's we're the only place in Central America. I haven't been I've been almost everywhere in South America and Central America but Costa Rica, I don't know. It just never.

Paul: 1:06:17

Was called you finally. Subcortex down there. Wonder if any of y'all that come will stay so.

Mike Peterson: 1:06:23

So people can buy their tickets with Bitcoin on the website? Okay, so make sure you get your tickets.

Jon: 1:06:33

It goes from El Salvador to Costa Rica.

Mike Peterson: 1:06:45

It just recently launched, are they doing people yet? Because originally it was just cargo. And then have you guys announced the dates for Pacific Bitcoin for next year

Jon: 1:07:10

I think we're locking in that we're locking them down but yet? it's going to be I think early November. Similar time of year fall.

Mike Peterson: 1:07:26

Just make sure it does a lap with adopting Bitcoin.

Jon: 1:07:29

Yeah, that's exactly what we're working out.

Paul: 1:07:31

You just went on a world tour. I just we started in Pacific Bitcoin went to Bali for Bitcoin, Indonesia. They went to and then came back here for adopting so. Good excuse to get away from the peak rainy season in Costa Rica. You don't want to

Mike Peterson: 1:07:47

We went a couple weeks ago was in Lugano for the be there for that. plan B conference and it was amazing. I didn't expect it to be so like legit Bitcoin, like only focused. So it was lovely to see conference. And Lugano, they've started like this circular, the startings of a circular Bitcoin Economy. I mean, they have all these stores now that are accepting bitcoin. And it was, it was, it was amazing to see. And it was funny because you see some of the same problems that we've had here. We bought. I bought something in one day from the store and like the owner was there and it worked fine the next day when they're like, No, we're not ready yet. I'm like, I just bought something yesterday. Yeah, but that was the owner and I don't know how to use it. So there's the same kind of teething pains, but once they get at it, it just works better than anything else. Right. So was this was a specific Bitcoin we're looking at here.

Jon: 1:08:45

This is the this is a promo video. I had my friend Jordan. J. Williams on Twitter, shout out to Jordan. He's amazing guy. Really great surfer two's Virginia boy out shooting on the East Coast. And he joined us for the the entire week we hosted a proof of work workout. First before any of the events where we did surfing to the beach, work out all of the surfing and then we had a mining industry day. And it's just going through a lot of the highlights VIP party at the bungalow this, it's basically the way it is. I think the best way to describe it is just a big party. Like it's a festival in and of itself.

Mike Peterson: 1:09:42

Well, that's where I met Paul. I love the basketball court afterwards.

Paul: 1:09:47

I love having something to do Val's diet and like a couple of conferences like it's good to go wiggle.

Jon: 1:09:56

How many bitcoin talks can you really listen? Right? Sometimes for for me personally, the most valuable experience of these events is like connecting with other people, expanding your network. But then to me as, as a man, especially the way that you connect with other with other guys, with our people in general, it's usually by doing things, like doing activities together. Like if you're sitting down like having coffee. Okay, what's next? Yeah. So we tried to incorporate, you know, getting getting out there on beach going and doing surfing, working, working out in some yoga. And then hopefully, we're definitely going to do more of that next year. I do a Kelly Slater Waipu. So it's an amazing event. You know, obviously, I'm working for Swan so shilling it, but I have, it's part. It's kind of a big part of what I work on as well with the events team.

Mike Peterson: 1:11:24

It's a great size, because it's you guys had a lot of just dynamic speakers, but it wasn't like so big that you're like, lost. And it's just felt like I don't know, I Like you're saying, I think I actually wiredd up going back really. and watching a lot of things online afterwards, because you're there. And you get in these conversations, and you're like, let's watch it online. Because you're just meeting so many interesting people and building these relationships. And so it seems like a lot of times like the conference is just an excuse to get everybody together. It's something to hang, you need a frame to hang things on. Then you spend most your time just out in the hallways chatting. That's why I love El Salvador, especially those out there. That's what it feels like all the time like this. I always tell people it's like a non stop Bitcoin Conference hallway. You're walking down the street and like, wait, hey, I know you like wait, do we know in real life or just Twitter?

Jon: 1:12:28

Are you one of those cartoon characters?

Mike Peterson: 1:12:33

Well, I want to make sure people know where they can follow you guys. I'm assuming you're on Twitter.

Jon: 1:12:39

Yeah, absolutely.

Paul: 1:12:43

There's me, Paul Keating. Oh, then Paul in the jungle and all of the other platforms. Yeah, I'll show you guys.

Jon: 1:13:13

And that's my twitter, connect with me there. If you're also on Instagram, I'm there as well. I think just sharing images like aspiring aspirational content, I guess, is kind of my goal there. Just a feature, the freedom that that Bitcoin can offer. Nice

Mike Peterson: 1:13:37

And everybody watching this make sure you message Cory and tell him that we need to do this later serve.

Jon: 1:13:48

Got a lot of good reviews, comments a lot happy customers.

Mike Peterson: 1:13:54

Well, I'm stoked to see the swan house here and how much excitement it's brought. And yeah, just the way it's brought all these people. Like I said, I every time I've done a podcast, I picked me up the swan house, pick up the swan house. So it's fun seeing that kind of bringing together in the community. So hoping this becomes if not a permanent thing. At least the yearly thing that you guys.

Jon: 1:14:17

Great idea, dude. I like the materialization manifesting capabilities. Your Podcast.

Mike Peterson: 1:14:27

Yes, we're making that happen. And yeah, I guess I'll see you guys in January. Awesome. You have to show me make sure I see the things I need to see when I'm there. How far from the airport is?

Paul: 1:14:41

It is an absolute mission. Sorry, everybody. Good luck.

Mike Peterson: 1:14:45

No, I've heard that about Costa Rica it's like, it's just a long ways.

Paul: 1:14:53

Yeah, can't sugarcoat that one.

Jon: 1:14:56

It's worth it though. Once you get to the beach. Yes. All right. And the people like, super, super cool. I just love Costa Rica is such a good fit. Good energy.

Mike Peterson: 1:15:08

I'm excited not regular, yeah, I'm excited. I've heard just amazing things about Costa Rica that it's just I don't know why I just never made it. Waiting for this. Yes, perfect. All right, well let you guys get back out there. So maybe get an evening session before the sun goes down.

Jon: 1:15:25

Yeah. We'll we'll try maybe. Snacks and boards. Thanks so much for having us, Mike.

Paul: 1:15:34

Thank you and thanks for sponsor solitary.

Mike Peterson: 1:15:35

Yeah, we got to manifest that.